Voice Over:

Welcome to AEC marketing for Principals brought to you by Smartegies, where we help design and construction firms navigate sales and leverage marketing to win more projects. Here are your hosts, Katie Cash and Judy Sparks.

Katie Cash:

Hi everyone. Today, we have an exciting guest for you. If you are a regular listener of the AEC Marketing for Principals podcast, you know that Judy and I like to sit down and talk with owners about their building programs so we can gain insight on how their organizations procure design and construction. And we like to ask them their personal perspective on what makes for a good partner. And many of you have asked us to have someone on the show to speak to the healthcare market, and well, today, I am happy to tell you that your requests have been heard. And today, we are talking with Katie Leonard, who is the Vice President of Real Estate and Facilities Department over at Wellstar Health Systems. And we are really excited to have her with us. Katie, welcome to the show. Thank you for spending some time with us this morning.

Katie Leonard:

Thank you for having me. This is very exciting.

Judy Sparks:

Awesome. Well, we always like to start the show with a little bit of an introduction. So if you don’t mind, if you’ll share with our listeners a little bit about yourself and maybe tell us a little bit about Wellstar and your role as the VP of Real Estate and Facilities.

Katie Leonard:

Yes. So I’ve been in the construction industry here in Atlanta for almost 20 years, which doesn’t seem possible. I started my career coming out of Georgia Tech, but the construction degree and I spent 12 years with a larger general contractor here in Atlanta. Very fortunate to have had the opportunity to stay in Atlanta, definitely in the construction industry. And I think probably one of the most asked questions I get is how did I get into construction? Did I have a background in it or family? And the answer is I have no idea. No offense to my bulldog friends, but did not want to go to Georgia and ended up at Georgia Tech, studying architecture and no offense to my design friends, but that wasn’t passionate for me either. So I changed my major to construction through advice of a very close friend of mine. And I have just been in love with the industry ever since then. So started out just like most in the field, hard hat, managing field operations, that amazing experience with Turner Construction over the years and moved over to the owner’s side about seven or eight years ago, working for BDR Partners and had a blast getting to do that, being on the front end of projects, working with multiple clients in the healthcare market and worked with Wellstar the client for about four years and absolutely fell in love with their culture and their people and the leadership. And when I had the opportunity to, as an interim for them in this role, I didn’t know how to walk away from it. I absolutely have been energized and excited about the opportunities that I have there. So it’s been, it’s been an awesome career journey. And just trying to just keep your eyes open the whole time as to what the next opportunity is, but I could not be happier at Wellstar right now in this role. And Katie, you did a great job with my title. It can get a little tongue-tied being so long. I think it’s like real estate and facility development services. And but the role is large and interesting. So I’m in charge of not just the real estate side of Wellstar. So Wellstar’s the largest healthcare system in the state of Georgia. We have 11 hospitals, five health parks, and 300 medical group practices over 226 locations. So from a real estate footprint, it is expansive,

Katie Cash:

Quite robust. Yeah.

Katie Leonard:

I know, I know, and no, I have not been to all, but I hope to get there. But under that umbrella too, it’s also just the facilities themselves and working closely with our facility directors as well as, as medical group practices and our administrative building our construction project management office project controls, which I know we’re going to talk about a little bit and the procurement theory and practices that we have in place. I am also involved with our security over the entire system, and we enforce most all of our hospitals for security. So it is an extensive department that does just an amazing job. And I think one of the more unique things is grounds. I was actually talking about this with someone else, but we maintain all of our facilities except for maybe just a couple and our grounds department. And that is everything from the maintenance, the landscape projects, mowing of the grass, the flowers they do an amazing job. So that has been really cool to be a part of as well, and also environmental services. So a lot of the cleaning and procedures that go on in our facility. So it’s definitely an expansive role, and it is incredibly challenging, but I am, I’m having a lot of fun.

Judy Sparks:

That is awesome to hear, Katie, you know, from the day I met you, I think anyone that has met you would describe you as just so impressive and quite the overachiever. So I think this role is perfect for you. I know, I can’t think of anyone more perfect for this role then Katie Leonard.

Katie Leonard:

It is like I said, get outside your comfort zone. I mean, this is definitely, it’s definitely cool. I will tell you though, getting to know groups has been so rewarding and just watching them just have a different style of leadership with me and just the things they’re doing. I recently had a lot of masks made for my departments branded with their department and a couple of security guys had them make one specifically for me that says the big boss lady.

Judy Sparks:

Well, I have to ask you Katie, It is so awesome to see your career path going from, you know, one of the largest, most formidable and respected general contractors in the country with Turner Construction then going on to represent so many owners in the healthcare space, as well as other areas with BDR. But now that you’re on the owner side, like, you know, just eyes wide open, what do you see on that side of the table that maybe was a blind spot when you’re on the vendor side? I think that there must have been some sort of aha transition as you take on this new role and, and now you’re on the other side of the table talking with those vendors and partners where your perspective might have been changed. Can you talk to us a little bit about, is anything different now?

Katie Leonard:

Yeah, it’s, it’s definitely eyeopening. I would say from just a very high level perspective is that there’s such a connection to purpose with the healthcare system and, you feel it, even if you’re, you know, representing them. And some of the kind of consulting or program management roles that I’ve served in the past, but being on the inside and truly seeing some of that leadership and just commitment to the mission has been just overwhelming. I think that’s one of the things that truly drew me in, or had me not wanting to walk away from, from Wellstar. So I mean, we, a lot of leadership meetings even start with a connect to purpose and patient stories. So it keeps you very grounded. And I think as an outsider, even as close as you are to your clients, sometimes you just don’t truly understand the impact of what you’re doing. The other thing that is eyeopening, and this kind of came from days starting to work a little bit more and see some of the other side and gosh, even no, no offense to Wellstar, hope for a better place, but a lot of them don’t know what they’re doing and this realm of the world. And it’s, I think that’s one of the things that gave me the opportunity to have business with them is that it doesn’t have to be their core work and mission to understand logistics and construction and some of the facility side where you have experience with someone. So I think we always think they have it all together and I’m not really sure they do. So. Number one, I’m glad I’m getting the opportunity, serve them, but anyone else out there chasing work there’s a lot of value in the work that the AEC industry brings to these healthcare systems.

Judy Sparks:

Right? So I think I hear you saying is, you know, healthcare systems are kind of focused on saving lives. They want to rely on their partners when it comes to logistics and construction and, and their capital investments to bring that same expertise. And that’s probably, you know, the big value proposition that you look for in partners, which is a great transition to the next topic. I’d love for you to cover is now that you are on the owner side, what would you have done differently if you were still at a general contractor or an owner’s rep firm, a PM firm, you know, as you approach a system like Wellstar? What are the things that those firms should be putting front and center to persuade you and your team that they’re a good partner for you?

Katie Leonard:

I think it’s just that continued relationship. And so many of the Atlanta industry partners, whether it be contractors or designed firms or program management, they do a really great job of it. But I think understanding and having that kind of the foundation of whatever the mission is of that hospital at the forefront of some of those conversations, because that can go a long way. Especially when you have some of the people that you’re dealing with and maybe hospital administrators don’t necessarily understand the ins and outs or the lingo of our world that seems so easy for us. But I think just taking that extra step and understanding that every project and every assignment that we do is impacting their hospitals. And, you know, I would say I would do that differently? Maybe not feel like I had that in mind. And I’m proud of the industry as a whole in Atlanta that serves the healthcare market. We do a great job of that. So many of the companies do a great job of that. And just, I think as, as companies grow or new people are brought into these clients, just to make sure that the leadership groups of those companies educate their, their new employees with that same mindset.

Katie Cash:

Katie, you know, I think the design and construction industry, we put so much emphasis on building those relationships with clients, having those conversations. But I think you can agree this year has kind of turned that on its head and made it a little bit of a challenge. There’s not those industry conferences or trade shows, or even, just pop up events that typically happen that bring together, you know, those design and construction professionals that serve the medical industry. So what are some ways that organizations can still connect with you all and still try to build relationships may be from a distance right now?

Katie Leonard:

I think that’s a great point and definitely some challenges with the way of the last, probably six or seven months and not getting to see people in person, but I think everyone’s gotten so efficient at the virtual learning. And I also feel like there’s definitely a trend of safe social distance type events. I know that with being chairman of ABC, we’re definitely seeing some success in those safe environments and getting back together and I’m telling you the energy, our industry, seeing each other in person is out of control. I love it, everyone. We are excited. We get to get together. It’s so happy. So, you know, I think that you know, a definitely a healthcare setting is more challenging, but I think just those touchpoints. And again, applauding kind of our industry here in Atlanta, so many companies stepped up to the healthcare market on just providing services and equipment that was needed, you know, during the height of the pandemic. And I think that while we’re feeling a little bit more comfortable and obviously our numbers are a lot better and we’re confident, you know, about, about [inaudiable] set up, I think that as we approach the end of the year and winter, we’ll definitely probably see some trends back and the direction. So just stay thoughtful about what you can do to be that resource and think ahead about what you can provide to these systems as we work through the fall and winter. Cause I do think we’re going to see some challenging times again, but just like every other system. I know here in Atlanta, we have unpaused our capital that was frozen during the pandemic and we’re continuing to evaluate new growth and additional capital release here in the next few months. So it’s definitely a great time for these firms that have kind of felt that pause. And I think all of the systems are definitely starting to spend capital again. So lots of opportunities to get back in front.

Katie Cash:

Can you talk any about what the future, you know, development program or plans look like, Katie? Could you share maybe what some of that investment might look like or what those projects might look like?

Katie Leonard:

Yeah, I think, and definitely thinking on the Wellstar side, I think it’s similar to the other markets. You know, we’re definitely the first release of capital are going to be a lot of those kind of imaging medical equipment replacement projects, core foundational items that just need to continue in that kind of urgent, immediate space in the world. But I think you’re, you’re really gonna start seeing that, you know, the capital growth type things. Obviously we had a large bed tower that was put on hold. You know, we’re going to be starting that back up again because the reality is even with the slowdown of the pandemic, you know, the volumes are still where they were and they’ve come back, we still need growth in a lot of these facilities. So I think you’re gonna start seeing some of those larger strategic growth projects come back into conversation and potentially start being released for planning and design in the next six months. But these first projects that are going to come out of this, this freeze and out of kind of reinitiation are going to be a lot of those smaller inpatient kind of imaging, like I said, equipment replacement projects, more than the expansion. However on the medical group side, if you think about, you know, just our scopes, there’s 300 practices and continuing to grow physician and growth on that workforce, you’re going to see a lot on that ambulatory side too. I think not just from, from us, but, but across the board, the ambulatory growth is going to be, it’s gonna be substantial.

Judy Sparks:

So Katie, you know, for our design listeners, our architects that follow our podcast, some of the conversation that I’ve been a part of a lot lately with preparing for presentations and putting together webinars, is this whole idea of going into post-COVID, low touch economy. So with this pandemic, has it changed the way Wellstar thinks about designing their facilities where, you know, there’s low touch or no touch environments. And how is the current situation of the world changing the way you think about preparing for the next surge of patients?

Katie Leonard:

That’s an interesting question. And I think there’s a lot of thought around that right now. And how do you kind of get ahead of that and plan? I think it is really still early, you know, as far as just immediate modifications in space, you know, a lot with the social distancing has gone into play in a lot of our facilities. And again, to your low touch, you know, just a lot of operational workflow, so that patients feel safe and there’s not those types of gatherings. How do you come in for a procedure? But I would say the biggest trend could potentially be almost where it was headed, where a lot of procedures in typical inpatient type settings are moving more to an outpatient setting where you have more opportunity for that kind of almost retail, you know, walk in you know, separation from a hospital. So I think you’ll see some trends there. But I think this is going to be evolving and I would definitely challenge our design partners in the industry to continue to stay one step ahead of that. And be thinking about how we design those spaces, but fundamentally I don’t see any shifts in the immediate of just overall space design. You know, I do want to comment on this because I do think that this is something that while you don’t really think that the healthcare market is commercial or office buildings, we have some actual support and administrative space. And that to me is the most changing environment even more so than maybe the inpatient setting, but the reduction potentially of real estate footprint you know, encouraging and developing a very robust remote workforce. I think you’re seeing this across every industry, but that to me is going to be a substantial part of the next few years across any of the markets that the AEC industry serves.

Katie Cash:

That’s helpful. Cause I do think people automatically just go to the patient care facilities. You know, they think about the hospitals, they think about, you know, some of the medical practice office buildings, but they don’t really think about the amount of administrative staff that you need to adequately run a whole health care system like Wellstar. So thanks for sharing that perspective. Cause I don’t think a lot of people really realize that.

Katie Leonard:

Yeah, there’s, there’s a lot more and it takes a lot. The acute clinical space availability is very limited. And so yeah, you definitely have a lot, a lot of additional type space to consider with the healthcare system this size.

Judy Sparks:

One of my favorite products, I don’t know if it’s correct to call it a product or not, but one of my favorite environments that Wellstar has are your health parks.

Katie Leonard:

Yes!

Judy Sparks:

II mean, I choose my doctors based on, location, lots of times and obviously expertise, but location. And I just love the health park in East Cobb.

Katie Leonard:

Oh yay. I love to hear that!

Judy Sparks:

It’s my favorite. And I’m all my doctors are there and I love going there. And I mean, what an innovation and I really credit Wellstar being at the forefront of that, putting your service in the neighborhoods, where they are easily accessible. So tell me about how your vision for these health parks might be in the future. Do you see that as a growing trend?

New Speaker:

We’re so proud of them and I know you mentioned one in East Cobb, but we have health parks like that in East Cobb, Vinings, a beautiful facility in Cherokee right off i-75. We have Avalon opened recently and also won an [inaudiable]. So they’ve definitely been successful. And, Judy to your point, they’re not supposed to feel like a typical medical office building they’re kind of large open foyers, very beautiful space. Most of them have trails around them and it’s supposed to be a one stop shop, you know, make it easy for the consumer. This is, this is something that Wellstar’s done a great job on is focusing on health care also with a very consumer perception focus. And it does feel good to walk in there and where your services are collaborated on and aligned. And you can see your primary care doctor or specialists, have your imaging, there’s retail pharmacy in most of those settings. So definitely consumer focused. So I think they’ve been successful and I think you will continue to see growth like that in other markets. Not all of them, but most of the health bars also have an ambulatory surgery center. And again, when I was talking about, you know, do potentially see some acute care procedures, inpatient moving to that outpatient setting, I think that that’s another way that these health parks will thrive is, you know, having someone go to go to there for a procedure just feels easier. It could feel safer than going to a hospital. So we’re, we’re really proud of them. And I think you’ll continue to see that kind of innovation and growth.

Judy Sparks:

And you know, just one step further, even outside the physical space, that is so, so impressive, I don’t know what you’re mixing in your Kool-Aid over there, but you all have the best employees. I mean, I feel like I’m going to Disney when I go to your health park because everybody is smiling. Everybody is greeting us. Everybody is on board with this client experience that you’re creating hating inside your environment. It is incredible. Just personal story, you know, my husband he’s fine, but he did experience you know, six surgeries at Kennestone last year. And it was a fantastic experience. I mean, you never hear that, right? You never hear, Hey, I had six surgeries and it was great, but it really was just a wonderful customer experience. And you know, you’ve sat through a lot of our branding sessions and you know, what we think about the relationship between a brand and the customer experience that intersection is very tight. So tell me when you’re thinking about designing and building facilities, how do you incorporate that Wellstar experience in that planning process?

Katie Leonard:

Well, I mean, it really starts from the top down and to your point, there’s been incredible focus and education on that. And talking about the brand I’m sure most people have seen that Wellstar launched an entire new branding campaign marketing campaign early in the year. Obviously all of our buildings aren’t completely rebranded yet due to COVID and freezing capital, but you’ll be seeing those signs come up pretty quickly. But the, that tagline of people care. And that’s what I hear you saying. And it’s wonderful to hear that it’s resonating and it’s active or executing on it, but I think it starts from the top down. So as you’re sitting and the designs are being driven and the test fits in planning are being done, even with some of the partners in the industry prior to design and construction, a lot of that goes into it. Again, focused on consumer perception and that experience, it just starts at the very beginning of the, of the planning and how patients flow and how they’re greeted. But yeah, I love hearing you say that.

Judy Sparks:

Well, we are very thankful for your healthcare system. The Sparks family is forever, indebted. So we are very loyal to the brand and, you know, we just went through re enrollment for health insurance, and the first thing we checked was are the Wellstar doctors accepted by this insurance.

Katie Leonard:

And I will be completely honest. Yes, I am. I’m actually, you know, branching into and becoming a consumer myself as I’ve come to Wellstar, so it is new to me too and definitely is a good experience.

Katie Cash:

I live over in Marietta just outside of where Kennestone hospital is and I was just driving through the other day, not actually having to go to the hospital, but just driving around the property. And I noticed a big sign saying with the new emergency department, you guys now have the largest one. So congrats on that.

Katie Leonard:

Yeah, that is the, I will tell you that project of that is just amazing. I mean, it is the size of a small hospital and it is, I believe it’s definitely the largest in Georgia. It’s the second largest I believe in the Southeast or on the East coast, I’d have to look again, there’s one maybe in Florida. But to your point about the design and the operational flow and the work that went into that facility is amazing. So I sure hope you don’t have to end up there and see it from the inside.

Judy Sparks:

Well not to mention you built it in an intersection, literally. The logistics of that job were amazing.

Katie Leonard:

And there’s a bridge that goes across the hospital. Definitely give kudos to Brasfield on that one. They did an amazing job, the logistics of the weekend. They put that bridge in place was just crazy.

Judy Sparks:

Oh ya that is no small feat. And you all should submit that to like engineering marvels or something.

Katie Cash:

For those listeners that may not have had a chance to build a relationship with Wellstar or with you, what is the first step that they should take? What advice would you give those that are, that are looking to pursue opportunities with you guys moving forward?

Katie Leonard:

I would definitely encourage anyone new to just educate themselves on either the system, the type of projects we have, the type of facility we have, and also what type of work that you focus on. We’ve done an extensive amount of work on the procurement side for design and construction, Wellstar to number one, make sure that we’ve got a really great list of partners, and also to make sure that they’re focused in the right areas. We don’t want to get into situations where we’re bidding different style companies or different specialty companies against each other. There are companies that focus just on ambulatory and outpatient settings and medical offices, but we sure don’t want to be bidding them against a really large general contractor that bids large complicated inpatient work. So we’ve done a lot of work on our side to get organized and thoughtful in the way that we approach vendors. So I think a great first step to be as efficient and effective with us is to educate yourself and know kind of where you want to start. And my departments are definitely the best place to start, because even if you’re a small subcontractor that would love to do work in the facilities directly, you know, with the hospitals, there’s a lot of maintenance, engineering, small work that goes in the hospitals that run directly through the hospitals and not the larger construction group. Even if you’re in that bucket, we can help navigate that for you. We definitely have a prequalification process just to kind of get you in the door and understand your company. So I think reaching out to me and my departments can point you in the right direction for the contact, but come in ready and understanding kind of what you would like to chase that will, that will definitely be helpful and definitely having healthcare experience. I think I can’t stress that enough. But we definitely look for local healthcare experience with these firms because we really want to have some of the best partners. You know, the, the other thing that I would say is that we really like to start almost any firm, even if it’s, if it’s a larger firm on some smaller projects, just so we get to know each other, you know, start on some smaller projects get your feet wet, understand our project management, style, our facilities, and build that competence and continue to kind of move up if that’s what you want to some of those larger, more complicated projects. And I love to highlight, we’ve had some amazing experience, and I’ll give tons of kudos to Turner Construction and McCarthy Building Companies, and [inaudible]. There’s a ton of them, but we’ll say Turner Construction in particular. They came in, they introduced themselves, they were set up and educated. They started out with some, some small kind of messy projects that might not have been the most attractive, and they absolutely knocked it out of the park and built relationships with some of the hospitals and then have just continued to grow and get opportunities on larger ones. And that would be an ideal model. If you were new to relationship with us.

Katie Cash:

Katie, could you share with us and with our listeners, you know, when you, when you get the invitation to, you know, be considered for a project for Wellstar, what are the top three things that you recommend, you know, either architects or contractors, or even your commissioning agents always include in their proposals? What are you looking for? What are those top three things?

Katie Leonard:

That’s a great question. I want to answer it in two different ways because the way that we procure work is like most semi hybrid. So Wellstar for a really long time has done almost all lump sum bidding. We’ve definitely changed that a good bit in the last few years and are making a lot of qualification based selections and GMP approaches to a lot of projects and that it can be based on size complexity schedule sense of urgency. So I would say for the lump sum bidding, if your firm is sitting on that part, but the three things would be demonstrate experience related to the project that you’re bidding on. So if it is a specific type of, you know oncology equipment replacement, demonstrate that you’ve done that type of work before and make your proposal as, as clean, as possible as a number two, easy to follow. And number three, make sure that you’re highlighting the staff that is associated with that project, because even in a lump sum bidding environment, we definitely are making sure that we are making the best selection for that project and for the system. So make sure that you highlight all of those. We’ve done a lot of work to get very thoughtful in our selection so that we continue to be very attractive to the industry. So that would be on the lump sum bidding side. On the GMP or qualification-based side. It’s similar, but a lot of time on those, they’re just more extensive proposals. So again, we make a lot of selections based on the team that you’re proposing and their specific experience related to that type of project. And usually we ask for an approach to that project. And I think that the firms that can demonstrate a very clearly with a very strong team usually end up in either a shortlisted scenario or potentially if we’re interviewing, bringing them in for an interviewing scenario. And I will, I know everyone knows this, but you can just make it or break it in an interview. And I mean, even recently, we went in with almost confidence of our top two and the interview completely flipped it around. So do the homework to prepare your proposal and your interview. It is, it is amazing to me what happens in those interviews

Katie Cash:

And you are not alone there. We hear that all the time, you know, the selection members come in thinking, you know, based on the scoring criteria, it’s clearly, you know, XYZ firm. And then, you know, coming out of the interview, they’re like, wow, I’m so impressed by this other firm. And it switched or, you know, completely unimpressed by who they thought was gonna win. It.

Katie Leonard:

It is, it is. And just to speak that again, because I think people that either think that they’ve, they’ve done it enough and comfortable enough there’s been just two recently where yeah, you go in and you’re scoring criteria and you feel super confident and it gets back to that connection that you can make. And especially in a healthcare setting, I mean, connecting with some of the people or hospital administrators that maybe don’t know our world, they’re looking for that connection and a trust in someone. So it’s just so powerful. Definitely from the time there, if you get the opportunity to be in front of, in front of these people.

Judy Sparks:

What are some of the things that people are doing in interviews that are really game changers in your opinion? You have first hand experience going through interview coaching with us. You have been through so many interviews on the other side of the table. Now you’re on the owner side and you’ve evaluated, you know, your former competitors, what are the things that are actual, you know, game-changers that say, Hey, the thought, you know, this, this changes everything I’m going to award this project to someone that wasn’t even on my radar prior to the shortlist.

Katie Leonard:

Be real and passionate. I think the emotional connection that some people make in an interview is what seals the deal. And it could be your just commitment to the project, to the hospital, to the system just be as real as possible. And if you don’t have that person, don’t bring them, make sure you’ve got, you know, the people in there that are, they are intelligent enough to speak to the project, but they can make that connection. And the second piece is do the homework. Know, that project inside and out with whatever information you’ve been given. Don’t make it generic, you know, and speak to the details. The firms that come in and have ideas about the things they’ve seen or improvements or logistics that they’ve already thought ahead of, that homework and that kind of being already bought into the project will usually be a game-changer.

Judy Sparks:

Is there a risk for firms come in with a lot of preconceived ideas? So one of the things we get pushed back a lot when we’re coaching from our design firms, they say, you know, we really don’t want to put too much thought into their design because we don’t have a program. We don’t have a lot of information. So we are hesitant to be presumptuous. What we hear from our contractors are often, you know, well, we don’t have any information. They don’t even have drawings. We have no information to go on. How are we supposed to talk about the job? And what we always say is, you know, you really needed to demonstrate your expertise in some of your initial ideas. And we get a lot of pushback around that. What is too much and what is not enough?

Katie Leonard:

Oh, there’s the art, right? It is 100% a risk, but I think you’re taking a bigger risk by not demonstrating your thoughts behind the project. And you may be wrong and it may be that they don’t want to go in that direction. But a lot of times they just like to see the creativity and to your point, the expertise to think through something like, Hey, this might, we know that we need to sit with you. And we know we need to understand the details and there can be constraints, but you know, what about something like this that might help the project. And on the logistics side with contractors I mean, I’ve been in interviews and watch them come back with videos with site picture, with plans of things where they’ve gone out, looked at the site, studied it. And again, it may not be, at the end of the day, what happens, but communicate that, you know, that it’s a risk, but did you were, you’re excited about digging into it and that type of energy and that type of kind of thought behind it is exciting. I mean, I love to see a group come in that sat around and thought about a project like that. You feel like they’re already in.

Judy Sparks:

I think that’s excellent advice. And thank you in advance because that might save our arguments in the future. And I’ll say, listen to this podcast. I do think it’s helpful. And the way I explain it to people, most of the time is, you know, they’re about to spend, sometimes, hundreds of millions of dollars with you, and they need to have an idea of how you think. Even if it’s not the actual solution, but the fact that you have the capacity to really be interested enough to have taken the time to think about the job before they’re paying you to think about their job.

Katie Leonard:

Yeah. And I would say to that too, because it can be intimidating if you’re going up against a firm that knows a facility inside and out, but I think you can use that to your advantage. I think that sometimes that is an upper hand and they know so many things that another firm might, might not know, and the challenges that can speak to them and make it just feel really confident that they’ve got it. But having a fresh set of eyes and new ideas, can also be extremely attractive. So I would just encourage, especially when, when y’all are coaching people is don’t get caught up in either scenario, whether you’re all in the know or you feel completely out of the mode, there’s advantages to both.

Judy Sparks:

And isn’t it true that you know, that incumbent firm that knows you so well, I mean, I feel like the selection committee has higher expectations from that firm?

Katie Leonard:

No 100%, I mean, break your heart sideways, but yeah. Yeah.

Judy Sparks:

You gotta protect your turf and bring your a game every single time because there’s no excuse for the firm that’s been there not to be digging in. Right?

Katie Leonard:

Oh no, they should be, they should approach it. Like just, yeah, just like a fight. I mean, all in 100% in everything you’ve got coming into those. It’s heartbreaking.

Katie Cash:

Well, Katie, thank you so much for your candid response. This has been great just getting a chance to talk with you. I know our listeners are going to love this episode because like I mentioned, so many of them are really asking for, Hey, we want some insight on healthcare and what’s going on these days. And I think you have really done a nice job speaking both for yourself and for Wellstar, but also kind of projecting for the industry as a whole, as you guys, all kind of are facing some of the same challenges, you know, in the wake of the pandemic and, and you know, releasing some of those capital funds to move on with your development. So I can’t thank you enough for spending your time with us this morning, and Judy again, for your candor as well. This has been a really great conversation and for all of our listeners out there.

Katie Leonard:

Thank y’all. And I miss seeing y’all this is so fun getting to talk to you and I really appreciate you asking me to join.

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