Katie Cash [00:00:02]:
Welcome to the AEC Marketing for Principals podcast. This show is designed as a conversation between sales and marketing principals to address trends, challenges, and best practices that are driving growth for professional service firms. Through our collection of discussions with subject matter experts, industry legends, and leaders, we aim to share thoughts and practical tips with our listeners that that you can use for growing your AEC brands. Hosted by me, Katie Cash, Senior Vice President at Smartegies, the AEC growth consulting firm that’s been developing smart business strategies for design and construction firms since 2008.
Katie Cash [00:00:43]:
Hi everyone, welcome back to another episode of AEC Marketing for Principals. Thank you for tuning in, and let me go ahead and give a disclaimer. I’m sorry for my voice. I am fighting a little bit of a sinus infection, but the show must go on. We have great things to talk about. And today we are continuing with our 2026 season all about changemakers, talking with people that have ideas on how we are reshaping how the global industry of AEC grows, how we lead with intention, how we differentiate in the market. And I did not want to put today’s guest on for a redo. So we’re moving forward because today I’m joined by Emily Cannon, who just stepped into a new role of Vice President of Brand Strategy, this signals something really important that we should all be listening to, and that is brand is not just a support function anymore.
Katie Cash [00:01:35]:
It is truly a strategic lever for change. We all know the brand Brassfield Gorrie. We’ve been looking at them for a long time. We try to look at them at the litmus test on what’s going to stay and what’s a trend. And I know I spend a lot of time working with different firms wanting to know the ins and outs on how they achieve such a strong brand over there. So Emily, I’m super excited to talk about what this move means for you, for the firm, probably for the industry, and kind of get your perspective on what you think it can do in terms of doing things right and driving alignment, trust, and momentum from the inside out. So Emily, thank you so much for taking time to talk with me today.
Emily Cannon [00:02:17]:
And coming on the show. I’m so honored to be here. Everything you described is, you know, I, I think a lot about most of those topics and I think we’ve got some really, it’s a really exciting time in the industry. You know, AI certainly is on the forefront of everybody’s mind. And so figuring out how to position ourselves within that framework is, is really important.
Katie Cash [00:02:38]:
It is. It’s a whole new frontier. It’s a little bit like the Wild, Wild West, but also, you know, we’re kind of dealing with the Matrix and what does the future look like with all the robots? And I think all of our listeners probably know Rassold Gorrie. I mean, we, we all know you as being one of the largest, most respected, you know, privately held construction firms in the US. You’ve been around for a really long time and you’re operating basically all across the Southeast, maybe more now. And, you know, thousands of employees, billions with a B dollars of investment revenue each year. And I know you have a really broad set of markets that you serve, public, private, lots of institutional. You’re always ranked in the top.
Katie Cash [00:03:20]:
Again, your, your reputation for quality, culture, and trust really makes you that benchmark that everybody looks towards. So all that’s behind us, right? You got this great pedigree, this great resume. I really want to hear more about this new role that you’ve stepped in, this new role of VP of Brand Strategy. Let’s talk about how does that fit into a firm at the scale of Brassfield and, you know, What does that really signify in terms of the new direction underneath your new leadership? And, you know, you don’t get these VP-level roles just thrown out. It’s not just because it’s a new year, but it was really insightful. I’m sure there was a lot of things at stake and a lot of things that really came to play that made this change necessary. So let’s talk a little bit about that.
Emily Cannon [00:04:06]:
Sure thing. You know, there is plenty about what you just teed up that we are still defining and figuring out, but I can, I can sort of give you give you the elevator pitch for as it stands today. You know, brand strategy is, we are looking at it as bringing into the forefront a lot of really important work that had been happening in the margins. Okay. You know, up against deadlines, things that had to be done to enable something else that was a priority., but that maybe we hadn’t been dedicating the proper skill, attention, time, focus to.
Katie Cash [00:04:48]:
Gotcha. Okay.
Emily Cannon [00:04:49]:
And so 2 years ago we, we did a big brand overhaul and launched a new website. You know, with that is visuals and verbal identity and, and the whole package. And, you know, to hear particularly our CEO and our current executive team tell it, we’re, we are about 15 degrees off of what feels really authentic to who we are. And so, you know, with that, we have had a series of really in-depth discussions with, with those folks. So a number, a number of the people who sit on our executive team to, to try to define, you know, who it is we are, what it is we want that to look like and feel like and sound like, and how do we get there? Yeah. And, you know, at a certain point, it’s interesting what our competition in the industry is doing. And at a certain point, we kind of don’t care. You know, you’re going to be you.
Emily Cannon [00:05:48]:
We are looking at the big names that, you know, the Apple and the Nike and the Tesla of like what is capturing attention and resonating with people for brand loyalty, regardless of industry, regardless of how people purchase that thing. You know, and trying to find— not everything that Nike does or everything that Apple does is going to resonate with what it is that we do. And so, you know, really just trying to find what it is that we can take away from that. And so, you know, working with some great inspiration about a year ago, we brought a creative director on board who had been, you know, in the agency space for a career and You know, he and I have just had, we’ve had a great partnership. He has brought some really great change and perspective to how we do things creatively and what that workflow looks like. You know, where do you, where do you bring in a creative mind? How, what questions are we asking? And so I think, you know, his and my rapport and work sessions kind of led to some of this, but. To look at the brand as an influencer to shape, you know, attitudes, perceptions, not only outside of the company, but within the company. And so, you know, current employees’ attitudes, retention is obviously a huge component of this, of course, recruiting.
Emily Cannon [00:07:30]:
Hand in hand with that. But I mean, if you start to talk about certain things and celebrate certain things, I feel like you’ve seen this with safety and with innovation over the last couple of decades or so. Everybody was talking about safety because we’ve all been, we all stepped up our game in safety. And then it became really important that we all talk about innovation because we had to prove that we had the robots and we had the drones to be considered innovative. And all of those things really are table stakes. In kind of the field we play in now. And so to think about, okay, what is the attitude that it takes? You know, there’s got to be a level of confidence and there’s got to be a level of risk-taking to kind of go out and do the things that we are required to do every day. So I think you’ll start to see us celebrating that in a different way.
Katie Cash [00:08:19]:
Than we have before. One of the things that I’ve always appreciated when I’ve been able to work alongside Emily, you and your team and the technical professionals that you all employ over at Brasfield is, you know, unlike— I mean, very much like every other firm that I work with in design and construction, you had some very ambitious founders, you know, that put their name on the door and put their reputation at stake to start something new. And little by little, they, you know, became known and became trusted and started to kind of make a name for themselves. They built a reputation. They grew beyond themselves, but they never lost sight of who they intended to be. And I’ve kind of witnessed that as the Brasswood and Gorey brand evolves. You kind of stay true to who you were, but with the right lens into where you need to evolve into. And so it’s not completely ignoring the fact that you got to step up your safety game or that you got to bring innovation into the fold or the diversity piece or whatever else it might be.
Katie Cash [00:09:24]:
But you’ve never really tried to chase the fancy new shiny thing for the sake of chasing it. And I think you’ve done a really, really good job internally communicating, reinforcing, inspiring, I guess, the B&G way, you know, what makes you guys bleed blue and what makes everybody really understand why you’re different, better, and special than the other contractors out there. And I think you see that when you work across offices, across markets, across the different teams within your organization. And then that breeds into external customer experience where I know you guys get invited to projects just based on the power of your brand and the power of your reputation. And they expect whatever that experience was at XYZ project to transplant over and you execute it so, so well. And that does not happen without means and methods internally and strong alignment and strong communication. But it’s— that’s just something that I wanted to, to bring up. I think a lot of our listeners would aspire for that as they’re in moments of change, whether it’s new leadership or maybe there’s been a merger and acquisition or they’re adding new services, new offices, and they’re trying to make sure they keep what makes them special special but add enough variety where it’s relevant for, you know, who’s in that office, who’s servicing those clients, the clients that they’re serving so that they still feel fresh and customer-centric.
Emily Cannon [00:10:56]:
Absolutely.
Emily Cannon [00:10:56]:
Yes. I mean, you know, capturing that and maintaining it is a, is a major priority. Yeah. It’s, yes, it are two different things. It are both major priorities. And I think there’s also got to be, you’ve gotta leave the space exactly to your point of what we’re doing in the Carolinas and what we’re doing in Texas and what we’re doing in Florida. Cannot and should not be cookie cutter. You know, you’ve got to have the authenticity of what is going on in that market, of who the people are there.
Emily Cannon [00:11:28]:
And I think, you know, really celebrating that is something that has been so at the forefront, particularly of our CEO’s mind. You know, a lot of what we’re doing right now— I talked about kind of changing attitude, or not changing attitudes, but influencing attitudes. And, you know, he talks a lot about and a lot of people do, celebrating the people who really make it possible for us to have jobs. You know, so I sit in a corporate role for a construction company, and the only reason that I can sit in a corporate role is because we have incredible people every day who are on these job sites making these projects come to life. And, you know, being able to put them and their effort and their contribution really at the center of what we celebrate and of what we talk about and who we are is so critical. You know, the shiny offices are great, but that’s just, that’s not our business. And, you know, I think seeing that as the why then also allows, it sort of fulfills the need of the retention and the recruiting because people understand that the work that they’re doing is valued and is celebrated. And so we’ve got some fun things going on to celebrate, you know, the people who power Brassel and Gorey.
Emily Cannon [00:12:45]:
I don’t know if you’ve caught our.
Katie Cash [00:12:49]:
LinkedIn or Instagram recently.
Emily Cannon [00:12:49]:
We just, we just rolled out an employee prize program we’re calling the Power Build Sweepstakes. We have a pretty fun host. We’re kind of leaning into the hokeyness of, you know, the game shows of several decades ago. And, and it was really all born of an idea of of Rob wanting to celebrate the people who do, you know, do.
Katie Cash [00:13:12]:
The most every day. Um, well, I think that’s a great segue. So you’ve got this big vision, you are launching with a very fun— you know, you guys kind of always go the little cheeky kind of commercial thing with some of your specialty campaigns throughout the year. I think about your Christmas cards and some of those other things that feel a little bit more personable and, you know, kind of not that you’re not professional, but just a little bit more humorous and human. So I love the sweepstakes piece and it’s, you know, it’s the new year, all these new goals and super, super fun. So let’s maybe switch gears and talk about how, how do you take this vision? How do you translate it like tactically, like in the weeds? How are you bringing that to life? Like I know Lots of people have these great grandiose why statements and, you know, they think they have a brand strategy, but trying to get everybody like in the boat, much less like rowing the same way around it, is a whole different kind of challenge. So what does brand alignment really look like at scale for you and your team at Brass One? And kind of how are you approaching that? You mentioned a little bit earlier you felt your, your team felt like it was a little bit off, you know, maybe the messaging wasn’t right, the visuals weren’t right, like something just didn’t feel quite right. But how do you really make sure.
Emily Cannon [00:14:33]:
That alignment is clicking? Sure. You know, I mentioned that we’ve been, we’ve been meeting pretty regularly with a good segment of our executive team, just about monthly over the last, I would say, 6 or 8 months. And I think that, that alone is the, the crux of the alignment, you know, Those are conversations that if, you know, if they had been happening before, I hadn’t necessarily been privy to them. And so it’s been really valuable, you know, myself, our creative director, my communication VP of communications counterpart have been in those rooms. And I think have, I certainly have been very mindful that we are here to figure out what’s next. We are, you know, it’s, it’s so helpful to hear what they feel like is or isn’t working or does or doesn’t resonate. And the whole point of those work sessions is let’s figure out what does, let’s take apart what doesn’t. Okay.
Emily Cannon [00:15:35]:
And not, you know, anything is on the table, you know, like let’s dream a little, let’s imagine for a moment what could we be doing that we’re not. And I think having their— the attention and the time investment that that group had to this is enormous. You know, to have leadership be invested in paying attention to what we are doing in this space and to give the time and the thoughtfulness— you know, there’s text messages flying back and forth about what is catching their attention on Instagram, or, you know, they see a video. So it’s so helpful to understand what they are paying attention to. So— and go ahead, keep going. I would— no, I was just gonna say, I think that is probably not a conversation, and, and the makeup of a room is not happening as often as it should in most places. Yeah, especially in this industry, to your point where, you know, sometimes you’ve got C-suite that just doesn’t fully understand what is possible when you’ve got a team in place to focus on those things. It’s so much more than the job site fencing.
Emily Cannon [00:17:00]:
It’s so much more than a good-looking proposal. It’s so much more than like a slick website.
Katie Cash [00:17:06]:
Yeah.
Emily Cannon [00:17:06]:
I mean, I think, and especially right now, I mean, to your point about we, we have some fun, that is intentional. Like we are trying to show that we are the humans that we are, that we have a good time together. You know, we, we, there, there was this notion going around that we’re not a suit and tie company. And it really is true. I mean, this is, this is in the mud and, you know, you’re up early pouring concrete, but making sure that we are in step with what leadership is envisioning and where they’re looking in terms of priorities, that, that is really, I think, the root of that alignment.
Katie Cash [00:17:47]:
I think the alignment is right in that it starts at the top and the more and more firms will open up those discussions to include marketing leadership, whether it’s, you know, a marketing director, someone has a VP of marketing or someone, you know, at your level where there’s a chief marketing officer, VP of brand, you’re just going to get, I think, better alignment when more parties are around the table. And you’re right, I think all too often those conversations happen in silos, one-off, and there’s a lot that gets lost and doesn’t get shared between the different groups. You miss out on a lot of collaboration, you miss out on a lot of opportunity of, you know, different perspectives. So having gone through this, Emily, our there any surprised participants that you felt like really were thoughtful or impactful at having around the table as you were really looking to ensure, you know, alignment? Because you, you named some of the ones, but they all felt like they lived kind of what I would say on the marketing side of the house, not so much on maybe operations or more corporate leadership.
Emily Cannon [00:18:55]:
Yeah, so the, the, the folks that I named are also part of those meetings. And so it’s our CEO, our chief strategy officer, a couple of our regional presidents, and a senior vice president who all of those functions report up to. And I think that has been, you know, the regional presidents can really, really speak to what are the divisions needing, what are their location, you know, a little bit more location specific, like we talked about. And so it gives us a pretty wide lens of leadership. And I think that has been really valuable. And I mean, we also just, I think, benefit from having this group who has very close relationships. And so, I mean, to your point, some of these conversations happening in silos, I think that has absolutely been the case. And now that we’ve been able to sort of join that silo, it’s we can do something about it, as opposed to if you’ve got a couple, exactly.
Emily Cannon [00:19:56]:
If you’ve got a couple people in leadership who maybe you’re seeing things that they don’t quite feel is aligned with either what they’re hoping to see or what our client, the clients are looking to see or where the direction of the company is going. But if that’s not being taken to the people who put that out there, it I think it just causes frustration, frankly. Yeah. You know, and don’t get me wrong, I mean, candidly, I’m still very, very much wrestling between how much are we sort of taking direction and like executing on that versus where do we feel like advising if something, you know, is, is in one direction or another. And I think that’s just always a fine balance.
Katie Cash [00:20:43]:
Yeah.
Emily Cannon [00:20:43]:
I think it’s always a fine balance. Regardless of industry in a role like this, that you’ve got people who come to the table with ideas that, you know, for one of maybe many reasons, just isn’t the direction that you feel like they should— we should take things. Yeah. And it’s figuring out how to come to a conclusion that, you know, kind of works all the way around.
Emily Cannon [00:21:07]:
Yeah, I think that’s great. Hey listeners, if you work in AEC marketing or business development, you probably are juggling a lot right now between proposals, interviews, leadership expectations, onboarding new tools, maybe even new strategies, and you find yourself faced with not a lot of training that actually applies to our unique world of AEC. And that’s exactly why we built SmartSkills. I am excited to announce that Smartages is launching SmartSkills, a new affordable online AEC-specific training subscription program that’s designed to help AEC marketers and business development professionals think more strategically, and execute with more confidence. This program is not generic marketing theory. It’s practical, tactical training focused on AEC positioning, pursuit strategies, even client engagement, and ways that you can work more effectively across both marketing and business development. I hope you’ll check it out. Go over to smartagees.com/smartskills to learn more.
Katie Cash [00:22:09]:
About the new subscription offering. Yeah, you know, in our industry, there’s going to be those moments where marketing gets to drive strategy and kind of be in the driver’s seat and make those suggestions and kind of shape it. And then other times where it’s like, I’m going to support where you’re going for it, I’m going to make it happen, right? And it is— we call those situationships. And yeah, you’ve made it to the table and you’re part of the room, you will intuitively know which way you’re.
Emily Cannon [00:22:36]:
Going to lean into. I trust, you know, and I’ll be the first to say I am, I am in a lot of cases not our target demographic. And so I don’t know what might work. And so I, you know, I have become, I think, more and more willing to like, let’s give it a try and see what we find out. Because, you know, I certainly am, am not in a place where I feel like I can speak in representation of a lot of the groups we’re looking at talking to.
Katie Cash [00:23:07]:
Yeah, sometimes that’s hard for a lot of us is to remove the fact that we are not the ideal target any longer. You know, whether it’s senior leadership that’s thinking about recruitment and how they were recruited, you know, 20, 30 years ago, it’s different, you know, whether it’s, you know, the modern-day marketer or whatever it might be. And so sometimes it’s just swallowing that pill and realizing this is not for me. But I know well enough to know that this is some things to consider. And so yes, being bold, trying something new. When it doesn’t work, like you mentioned, take it apart, unpack it. Why didn’t it work? What can we do different? You know, if it is working, how do we dial it up?
Emily Cannon [00:23:47]:
How do we amplify that? I think the filter and the litmus test of which is tempting for a marketer to think this isn’t something that I like.
Katie Cash [00:24:04]:
Is not always the best for talent. Yeah, yeah. Some— sometimes, sometimes you’re going to do some things and you might wonder, why am I doing this? And then on the back side, you’re gonna go, that’s why I did it.
Emily Cannon [00:24:18]:
It worked, right? Or it didn’t, and now we all have good lessons.
Katie Cash [00:24:22]:
Yeah, there’s a lot to learn, but both ways. So, Emily, for our listeners that might find themselves, you know, in senior leadership positions within the marketing departments, or maybe they’re just in leadership positions and they’re representing their region, their discipline, their office, whatever it might be. What is something that you would tell them to try to do this year to better align with their brand strategy?
Emily Cannon [00:24:50]:
What’s one practical— that’s a great question. Piece of it. That’s a great question. You know, I think it depends so heavily on who you’re trying to align with. And I think I can speak both out of the lens of some things that I’ve maybe done well and some things that I maybe could have done better in the past. And I think being able to come to that conversation, I mean, certainly to facilitate that conversation to start with, in a way that is open and collaborative and not, you know, you’re really there to listen, that you’re not defending what’s been done, that you’re not eagerly trying to say why something can’t be done. Because let me tell you, I’ve seen a lot of things pulled off that my initial reaction would’ve been like, ooh, I don’t know if we can make that work. But like, I think if you can frame frame it in your own mind of why couldn’t it be done? Yeah.
Emily Cannon [00:25:55]:
Or what more could be done? Um, how could we do this differently? Like, go in as an investigator, go in asking as a reporter to really understand, and it not be entirely about.
Katie Cash [00:26:12]:
Your own agenda and your own preferences. We might have shared a similar mentor, Emily, because I, I kind of grew up in the age of AEC where the answer was always yes. And, you know, you didn’t sit there and say that can’t be done, but it was to try to figure out how to make it happen. And the answer might be, yes, we can do it, but I need more time or more money, or I need someone else to take this off my plate for me to focus exclusively on it, or we have to reprioritize things. But the whole idea of don’t discount something just at face value, like turn over the stones, do the work, figure.
Emily Cannon [00:26:47]:
It out, give it a chance before you say no. Yep. Yeah, no, absolutely. And, you know, I mean, again, I mentioned AI early on. I think that is really one great way to leverage that tool is to, to investigate, to research, to start to figure some things out in a much faster and more efficient way than we could have, you know, a couple of years ago.
Katie Cash [00:27:15]:
I could probably pick your brain on AI for a whole other episode, and maybe we’ll do that. I’ll try to keep us focused on, on brand strategy here because I feel like AI just kind of flows into everything. There’s still a lot of unknowns. I feel like every day I talk with a client and they’re trying to figure out what their stance is on it. People are at a variety of adoption.
Emily Cannon [00:27:36]:
Rates and— well, then it changes every day also, right?
Katie Cash [00:27:39]:
You know, it’s hard to keep up with. Okay, so let’s put a pin in AI, but I do want to keep maybe charging ahead. So you’ve shared this story, you know, you’ve got new leadership, you’ve, you’ve been working behind the scenes for a couple years, kind of new brand launch, new messaging, some new tools, some new campaigns. You continue to evolve with intention, building that alignment. Where do you see things going? You know, what, what’s next on your radar? What are you most excited about? Like, I’m gonna— obviously everybody needs to be following you guys on Instagram because that’s going to be the new fun campaign right now. But what else is going on in.
Emily Cannon [00:28:19]:
This, this next chapter for you, Emily? Yes, no, we’ve got, we’ve got a lot to look forward to. We’re working on a lot of really interesting things right now. You know, I think if I could put a theme on— if I could put a theme on some of the things that we are working on and have been working on, it is really leaning into sort of this notion that entertainment is the currency right now. Okay. You know, we’ve all been on Instagram, we’ve all been on social— and maybe not LinkedIn to the same degree, so I’ll stay with Instagram. But like, you know, you search through your story and it’s entertainment. It’s— you could sit and watch a show, or you could sit and watch, you know, whatever it is you’re— and trying to find people there and entertain them in a way that makes them feel connected. Um, we’re, we’re trying to— we’re flexing that muscle, uh, and we have, we have been for a little while.
Emily Cannon [00:29:13]:
Again, your, your point about the Christmas videos has been, um, is it’s a long-standing tradition. We went a little bit of a different direction this year. Again, I mean, that’s, you know, very much a product of some of our, our new leadership and their vision and what resonates with them. And I think truly with a lot of our audience right now. And so we’re trying to figure out how to entertain as a way to build that connection. And again, to celebrate a lot of what the work really is. And I think you’ll start to see some different things from us. It will probably be a little bit later in the spring or mid-year, but just what the— again, I mentioned the We really launched a new brand 2 years ago.
Emily Cannon [00:29:59]:
And what does it start to look like? You know, you think about some of these big consumer brands that I mentioned, and they’re really— they really aren’t the same from year to year or even from month to month. And it’s how do we make subtle adjustments that give you the evolution and let that brand develop and, and live and mature. In a way that keeps it fresh and keeps it interesting. I have a lot of interest in how to better activate our website. We again did roll out a website about 2 years ago. It’s beautiful. Yeah, it largely looks like it did then. And, you know, I think looking at some of our— in spite, you know, the brands that inspire us, that’s not necessarily the case.
Emily Cannon [00:30:48]:
You know, if you go again, if you go to Apple’s website, today and then again in a month, you’re probably not going to see exactly the same thing. And so how do we blend some of this entertainment and some of this great content that we have just out there generally? We have a YouTube channel that if you’re not following, you should, because it’s very entertaining as well. But to better tie those experiences together, and certainly the website for a lot of people is not the front door to a company anymore. But it is still there and it shouldn’t feel super disconnected. If you’ve been on a YouTube and a LinkedIn and an Instagram and then you go to WrestleGory.com, you should see, you know, it should feel cohesive. Well, and so we’re going to, we’re going to work and see what we.
Katie Cash [00:31:35]:
Can do about that. I think you touched on a few of the key components here is, you know, the consumer world is huge and vast and there’s things that, that work really well in the consumer-to-consumer business. We’re a little bit different. It’s B2B, it’s professional services, it’s abstract, it’s complex, you know, it’s decision by committee. But there’s a few underlying things that we all share as buyers and consumers, and that is we are curious by nature. You know, if I have connected TV at home, I think everybody listening probably does. You look at my YouTube searches, You know, it’s a variety of things of whatever’s going on in my life, and throwing a toddler birthday party to fuel farms at aviation. Like, I’m trying to be as up to speed on all the things I need to know about and educating myself in ways that are interesting and helpful.
Katie Cash [00:32:29]:
And so that whole partnership of information, entertainment, having it be snackable, having it be available where people live, whether that’s YouTube or Instagram, or you’re right, like through these other kind of micro moments that really celebrate what’s going on in the world. I’ve seen some brands do some really fun things that are just special for maybe a subset of their audience on their website to make them feel, you know, like they’re getting a moment in the spotlight. And that kind of quote unquote goes viral, right? I just start thinking about these different things and you’re not doing that with the intention of going viral, but really with the intention of connecting with your audience. And showing up and being there when they need you, when they want you, and basically whenever they could, whenever you could. And finding that moment of connection through digital means, I think, is just going to continue to be something that we see shape brand strategy, kind of making sure that alignment is working so that when you experience something online and then you take it offline, whether it’s a job site trailer or, you know, a kickoff meeting or whatever it might be, that you still feel like you’re working with the same firm and you just didn’t get, you know, baited into it. And I think that’s where your role in kind of bringing all these different parties together is ensuring that you’re not just saying stuff top line from a brand, you’re instilling it internally, you’re, you know, shaping those opinions, those thought process. And then that’s really how everything gets communicated and experienced on the back end when the people who are powering Brassfield Gorrie are really celebrating your core values and the way that you think about things. And no, absolutely.
Emily Cannon [00:34:14]:
And Katie, I mean, your point about the B2B, B2C is valid. There is a lot of decision by committee in the B2C space, especially as you start to slice between sectors. But the psychology of influence is very interesting and just planting those impressions, planting those seeds of competence, of innovation, of whatever the fill in the blank is, really has such an impact. And whether you’re the B on the B2B or the C on the B2C, it’s still people, right? It’s still a person ultimately, or a group of people. And so a lot of the principles definitely still apply. And so I think we’ve, we’ve really tried, and I’ve really tried, you know, even in looking at pursuit strategy over the years of how do you make the statement, how do you connect with that, that reader on the other side? Yeah, to read whatever they will choose to read. We want to make sure we could at least get the message across that.
Katie Cash [00:35:24]:
Of what they do absorb. How do you connect with Mary who’s reading the proposal that’s going to say yes to us and we’re going to work alongside her and her team for.
Emily Cannon [00:35:33]:
2 years, 3 years? And we’ve all got the stories of sitting in a client presentation where you.
Katie Cash [00:35:39]:
Can just tell you haven’t connected.
Emily Cannon [00:35:42]:
Yeah.
Katie Cash [00:35:42]:
And I mean, I think it goes back to no one’s going to buy from you if they don’t know you exist, first of all, right? You’re not going to get an at-bat, but you need to be seen, you need to be known in order to build trust. And the more and more you can make sure everywhere your brand touches is aligned in supporting that singular theme, the more consistency you’ll have there. And knowing that your audience knows who.
Emily Cannon [00:36:11]:
You are and whether or not they.
Katie Cash [00:36:14]:
Believe what you believe, and you’re going.
Emily Cannon [00:36:14]:
To be a good fit. Yeah, there’s an anecdote that I love to share in settings where people understand, and I feel like this would be one. This has been 10 or more years ago, but we were pursuing a big healthcare project in the Carolinas and we had loaded up and driven up early in the morning to go present. And it was sort of one thing led to another and we ended up with, I don’t know, I think they were an hour or more late starting, which the nerves are up and you’ve got this crew who’s just Everybody’s kind of at a 12. And it was a really unique interview setup anyway. But we like finally get to, you know, the presentation piece of it. And where I was seated in the room, I was next to someone and I can’t remember if it was, you know, she had her iPad up and she was shopping for socks. And I just knew then I was like, she’s sock shopping.
Emily Cannon [00:37:13]:
We are not getting this job. She is not listening. We have a lot to talk about. We have not connected. And, you know, That may or may not have been when we lost the job, if you will, but we’ve all had moments where you’re like, I’m not.
Katie Cash [00:37:28]:
Connecting, this isn’t resonating. Yeah, the eyes glaze over, they look at their phone, they ask a question where clearly you just answered it.
Emily Cannon [00:37:37]:
Yes, right. There’s telltale signs.
Katie Cash [00:37:39]:
There are, there are signs. But there are certainly things that we can do on the front end to make that a better customer experience for the individuals evaluating us, and we can do our homework and know who’s across the table and find a way to connect with them, find a way to make what, what we believe something that they care about, use their currency, let them know that we’ve been thinking about.
Emily Cannon [00:37:58]:
It, at least start a conversation. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, you know, we both know well that sometimes the repetition, not because every day is the same, but sometimes the repetition of the requirements here and that, you know, you got to hit this mark to get to the next mark and then there’s another one in the door. Yeah. But, you know, really at the end of the day, the work, yes, but the work that we are doing and what it then enables these companies to do and, you know, the economic development component of it, there’s just, there’s so much incredible that stems from these RFPs and putting these proposals together and going to these client reviews and talk and having these strategy to win meetings and You know, it’s easy to feel like, okay, here we go again. What are our differentiators? What’s going to make the— but you really sort of zoom out a little bit and can put some context to it. It is an incredible industry, you know, and from a marketing standpoint, it’s an.
Katie Cash [00:39:03]:
Incredible way to be part of it. I love it too. This is exactly what I wanted to talk about today. This is what I feel like the season needed in conversation. So I can’t thank you enough for being here and sharing your story. I am going to ask you for one maybe parting piece of advice. Anybody listening today that might not feel like we don’t know what our brand strategy looks like, what is the first step that they should take? What advice would you give them just to start 2026 off building towards an alignment, or at least an understanding of.
Emily Cannon [00:39:37]:
Of what their brand strategy could be and should be? Sure. I think I’m going to go back to that. Put your investigator hat on. Okay. And search the internet, search, you know, your leadership interest. You’ve got to do the work. We’ve all got to do the work to understand what we’re doing currently. How that does or doesn’t match with what we want to be doing in the future.
Emily Cannon [00:40:12]:
And then the piece is how to get there. But if you can separate yourself from, oh my gosh, the more that I unearth that we have to do means that there’s more to be done, and let’s just get our arms around what all there is to be done, you can go so far. I think if you don’t have that sort of restrictor on, oh my gosh, every idea I have, I’m going to have to figure out how to also execute cute. Yeah. Because again, we, I mean, AI can do a lot for us. Smartogees, a company like this, a consultant like this in your corner can help with a lot of this. But if you could really just unearth what it is that you feel like is needed to change, to be amped up, to be dialed down, and you can start putting those things in play one step at a time. Yeah.
Emily Cannon [00:41:08]:
You know, we, we, when we rolled out the brand, we did not flip a switch. We had it very phased intentionally. We were also not a public company and there’s, you know, we’re, we’re able to do some things like that, that maybe there’s restrictions otherwise. But in a lot of cases, if you are making adjustments to language, to visuals, you can do so in, in steps.
Katie Cash [00:41:31]:
Yeah, you can, you can pilot. And I think that’s. It’s really great advice. I know a lot of our clients, when they’re first starting out, the greatest value they get is kind of first putting that group together and having the conversation because they’ve never had it, or they’ve never had it collectively, proactively, right? And, you know, sometimes it’s the hardest conversation they’ll have, you know, and these are super smart people solving the world’s challenges of right, you know, regenerative building and all the, you know, power supply and all these things. But having a conversation about something that feels a little bit intangible but very personal related to the brand in which you work, just kind of being vulnerable and having some conversation around what they feel like is working and not working, where they want to go. And then like you mentioned, start small, test a piece, do a little bit, see what works, add some more to it. You don’t have to do everything. I’m a big fan of having a parking lot list and you can pick and choose when those might come in and some of it maybe might not.
Emily Cannon [00:42:36]:
Ever make it off the parking list. Well, knowing the principles of so many of these firms, this is a squishy topic anyway, and it’s just, especially if you’ve got someone who is not inclined toward it, but a lot of people can look at two things and tell you if they like one better than the other. And then if you can get them to tell you why. And so put up some comps, you.
Katie Cash [00:43:01]:
Know, just test some things out.
Emily Cannon [00:43:03]:
Or— and I, I find you’re having.
Katie Cash [00:43:04]:
A hard time getting that conversation started if it’s not just what they like, but how do they make them feel, you know? What makes you feel more confident, proud, whatever it might be. But yeah, Emily, again, this has been so good.
Emily Cannon [00:43:17]:
Thank you so much.
Katie Cash [00:43:19]:
I love— always a treat. Um, congrats on the promotion. I’m So excited to see what you all roll out over the course of this year. And for all the listeners, thank you for sticking it out to the end. We will see you here next time, right back on AEC Marketing for Principals.
Katie Cash [00:43:38]:
Take care, everyone. AEC Marketing for Principals is presented by Smartegies, the AEC growth consulting firm that has been developing smart business strategies for design and construction firms since 2008. The show is hosted by me, Katie Cash, Senior VP at Smartages. I would love to hear from you. If you have a question, a guest request, or a topic request for a future episode, send an email or a.
Emily Cannon [00:44:05]:
Voice memo to [email protected].
Katie Cash [00:44:06]:
And if you’re looking for past episodes, be sure to visit our podcast page at smartages.com/podcast. We hope you’ll tell your friends and colleagues about our show and be sure to subscribe so you don’t miss out on future episodes. Thanks for listening.