Katie Cash [00:00:02]:
Welcome to the AEC Marketing for Principles podcast. This show is designed as a conversation between sales and marketing principals to address trends, challenges and best practices that are driving growth for professional service firms. Through our collection of discussions with subject matter experts, industry legends and leaders, we aim to share thoughts and practical tips with our listeners and that you can use for growing your AEC brands. Hosted by me, Katie Cash, Senior Vice President at smartigies, the AEC growth consulting firm that’s been developing smart business strategies for design and construction firms since 2008. Hi everyone. Welcome back to another episode of AEC Marketing for Principals. This is the podcast where we like to spotlight leaders who are shaping the built environment through innovation and through impact. As you know, I’m your host, Katie Cash and this season is all about change makers, those people and projects that are redefining what’s possible across the design and construction industry.
Katie Cash [00:01:05]:
And today’s guest leads one of the most ambitious infrastructure and urban design projects in the Southeast. I’m really excited to share with you all today Jack Cebe, who is the director of the Stitch, which is an initiative of the Atlanta Downtown Improvement District. And for anyone that might not be local to Atlanta or might have not heard of the Stitch, the Stitch proposes to Basically cover cover 3/4 of a mile of the Connector downtown, which in Atlanta we decided sometime to put i75 and i85 together. We thought that would be a good idea. We’re living through the repercussions now with traffic every day, all day long there, but the Stitch is going to cover that with a 17 acre park and it’s going to quote, unquote, stitch the neighborhood together. So we’re really excited to see this come to life. And it’s expected to generate over $9 billion in economic value and potential, create up to 18 million square feet of new mixed use development and supporting the affordable housing initiative for the city. So we’re really excited to see this project come online.
Katie Cash [00:02:11]:
And that is Jack’s baby that he’s managing day in and day out, bringing to life. So, Jack, why don’t you maybe share a little bit more about yourself before we get into the project itself.
Jack Cebe [00:02:23]:
Yeah, thanks, Katie, and appreciate you having me on the podcast. Yeah. So I’m, as you said, director of the Stitch. I’ve been working with the Atlanta Downtown Improvement District on this project for about three and a half years now. And I came to this project. I had prior to this worked most of my career in the E consulting arena. I’m a landscape architect and a civil engineer by background, worked on transportation projects, place making projects, park projects, or a number of different consulting firms over my career, and really was intrigued by the stitch in some of my work in previous companies working on these capping type projects. Because if you’re, if you’re unfamiliar with these interstate or infrastructure capping projects, it might seem like a crazy idea, but in, in actuality, there are over 60 of these projects, you know, in cities all across America built today, and hundreds of them and planning.
Jack Cebe [00:03:40]:
And it’s really, you know, the, the purpose of these projects is to. We have a lot of our space in, in cities that has been doled out to transportation needs and because there are a lot of transportation needs. But if there are ways to, you know, make better use of these valuable spaces and also be able to spur economic development, create amenities for communities such as parks, or, you know, some of these projects are overbuilt projects with private development over the interstate, you know, putting the interstate in the tunnel or a rail line in a tunnel. So projects like Millennium park in Chicago, if you’ve been to the Bean in Chicago, that’s actually a park on structure over a rail yard and a parking deck. Hudson Yards in New York over a rail yard, Clyde Warren park in Dallas, which is a very close example in many ways of what we’re trying to do in Atlanta. Park over a state highway, the Big Dig in Boston, a park over an interstate. And all those instances have really transformed the communities that they’re in. It’s a huge opportunity, a challenging opportunity in many ways, but it’s really a key to unlocking a major part of our downtown here in Atlanta, which is why we’ve been at it for so long, trying to make it happen.
Katie Cash [00:05:15]:
Well, it certainly is exciting and it, and it did sound like one of those crazy ideas, you know, when it first came about. But then you can show and you can point to it like you just did, that the proof of concept is out there, that it’s not just a engineering idea, that it actually works, it can become a new asset. And when you’re in a dense urban environment like Atlanta, where you can’t really grow out too much more, the only option is to go up or kind of reuse, recycle things. It makes a lot of sense to kind of take the transportation throwaways and find a way to put something on top of it. So now the stitch also happens to sit just adjacent to one of your alma maters. Am I correct in that? Didn’t you go to Georgia Tech?
Jack Cebe [00:05:59]:
I did, yeah. I I. I came to Atlanta 10 years ago for grad school at Georgia Tech, and I never left. Atlanta was great welcoming place and has been really good to me. I’ve really enjoyed my time here. It’s definitely home now.
Katie Cash [00:06:20]:
Well, we’re glad to have you. Although we’ll tell others Georgia’s full, we’ve got too much traffic, the property taxes are going up, all the good stuff. But no, I joke. I joke. So let’s talk a little bit more about this fun project, the Stitch, which feels really exciting, and I know that you are personally excited about it and you’ve been working on it for a number of years, but we’re approaching the end of 2025. Construction is going to start next year. Right. Are we still on track for 2026 construction start? We.
Jack Cebe [00:06:52]:
So we will be shuttle ready next year. You know, we. We were planning on starting construction, you know, next year, and I believe it will likely be 2027. Now, if. I’m sure some of you who are familiar with the Stitch had heard this news we had. We’re advancing the project in large part through Reconnecting Communities grant from US dot. Fortunately, a large portion of that grant was rescinded as part of the reconciliation bill this past summer. So we are, you know, we’re still moving forward with the project, but, you know, that’s had us.
Jack Cebe [00:07:35]:
It’s required us to go back and take another look at our funding and implementation approach. And so we’re in the process of kind of finalizing what, what the new approach forward is. But the city’s still very much on board. We’re obviously still very much on board. The GDOT is still very much on board with the project. So we’re, we’re moving forward and pivoting, and with any big project, things happen. And so, you know, the key is perseverance and tenacity.
Katie Cash [00:08:06]:
I like it. So maybe talk a little bit about where the project is today. You know, you mentioned a few of those points, but do you have engineering and design and construction partners already lined up for the first phase? Have you started charting what the design might look like, give us some insight into where we’re actually at in the developmental process?
Jack Cebe [00:08:29]:
Yeah. So the project’s been in the works for about 20 years, and a good portion of that time has been just really advancing the idea and the vision of the project. And, you know, when I came on board about three years ago, we were successful in getting some, some federal and local money earmarked for the project to begin to advance planning and design and ultimately, that snowballed into construction funding for the project as well. What we started out with about three years ago was creating a master plan for the project because, you know, at its core, you know, the project is a major infrastructure improvement. It’s creating that 17 acres of park over the interstate. But really, if you look out beyond that, the whole intent of the project, like you mentioned earlier, Katie, was, is to help reconnect and revitalize this area of north downtown. There hadn’t been a whole lot going on here ever since the interstate was constructed because, you know, no one really wants to live next to half a million cars you’re driving by their front door every day or open up their business, you know, in this area of. Of of town that had really been kind of back of house because of the busy interstate that runs, runs through there.
Jack Cebe [00:09:48]:
So, you know, in this area Today, there’s about 50 acres of parking lots and vacant buildings in the heart of our city, which is, you know, some of the most valuable land in the entire southeast, you know, downtown Atlanta. And, and so, you know, this, this project is really to cover up that barrier and turn it into a community asset to help drive the redevelopment and the reconnection of downtown and surrounding neighborhoods. And you mentioned earlier, we have the opportunity here, with that 50 acres of developable land to make a huge dent in our housing demand as a region. We can build, you know, we estimate up to about 25,000 multifamily homes in this area. We can support, you know, up to about 5,000 new jobs per year as a result of this project. And ultimately that creates, you know, about $9 billion in value for the city and the region of the state. So, you know, we really need to be thoughtful around how the park is designed, how the park is operated, how we implement the park, because we’re not going to build an entire 20 acres at once. That’s a, you know, a big undertaking that we just realistically don’t have the resources to.
Jack Cebe [00:11:16]:
To do all in one fell swoop. And so, you know, the master plan helped us phase out, you know, the different components of the project and also look at, you know, the area around the project and develop supportive programs and policies like zoning code changes like affordable and workforce housing goals and funding strategies. So that it’s. It’s really gave us a comprehensive kind of district plan on how to roll out this project. And we got a lot of input from the city on it and from the public and businesses to support this, which was important. So that was really the first Phase of the development of the project, getting to where we are today. Since then, we’ve been advancing engineering on the project. We’re at concept phase right now with phase one of three phases of the stitch.
Jack Cebe [00:12:13]:
And what phase one includes is about five acres of that 17 acre park. So the first kind of center segment, we call it the heart of the stitch because it’s right in the middle. It’s right off of Peachtree street, which is kind of like downtown’s main street if you’re not from Atlanta. And so a very key part of the project that will create a great 5 acre park from the get go. Once it’s constructed over the interstate, it will also deliver about 8 miles of transportation improvements to adjacent streets and streets in the area. A lot of these streets were built for very high speeds in mind for moving people as quickly to and from the interstate from offices downtown, jobs downtown. If you’re not in Atlanta, you are familiar with your own city. You know, the office environment, real estate environment is much different than it was just a few years ago.
Jack Cebe [00:13:14]:
I worked for the Atlanta downtown improvement district, which is essentially the business improvement downtown. And we represent businesses downtown. And all these office property owners, they realize that future of downtown is, yes, office, there still will be office, it needs to be office. But we really need people living downtown to create a 24, 7 vibrant street life. And so we need to add a lot of residential downtown. And so to support that, these streets need to be rethought a bit to, you know, have more friendly wide sidewalks with street trees for pedestrians for, you know, you think about, you know, where you want to walk along the street. It’s not along a, a five lane road with cars whizzing by at 50 miles an hour and a four foot sidewalk. It’s a nice wide sidewalk with shade in the summertime that’s friendly for pushing a stroller, friendly for biking, and so you can walk to the park a few blocks away and feel comfortable.
Jack Cebe [00:14:20]:
And that’s what we’re trying to do as a part of phase one with the streets surrounding the park. So, you know, those, those components, like I mentioned, are in design. Right now. We’re in concept phase. We hope to get through your preliminary engineering and NEPA approvals by next summer. And then from there we will start to implement components of that first phase. Probably late 26 and 27 is how we, we plan on moving forward. And we hired a team, a very big team, multidisciplinary team that’s been a great partner in all this wsp Engineering is the prime consultant on the master plan all the way through final design.
Jack Cebe [00:15:06]:
They have a lot of sub consultants on their team, namely Hargraves Jones Landscape architects out in New York. That team, WSP and Hargraves. You know, part of the reason we selected them is because they’ve worked on these types of interstate overbuild projects together and understand some of the nuanced issues that these projects need to address. So, you know, they’ve been really helpful and in guiding us through, you know, a lot of the design challenges and making this a very exciting park design that the public is just, you know, chomping at the bit for it to happen. So it’s been a great, great partnership. The project’s moving forward really well with all the partners. And I will. I will just add that in terms of delivery of phase one.
Jack Cebe [00:15:56]:
So GDOT’s a key partner with this. Obviously, the Georgia Department of Transportation, like other department of Transportations, have oversight for interstate highways. They are the expert at building interstate bridges in the state, hands down. So, you know, we’re very excited that they’ve agreed to you help us deliver this project. And they will actually be managing the construction of the cap, that the park will sit on top of the bridge through their design build procurement program. And so that’s a big help for us in figuring out, you know, how to deliver your project of this size and complexity.
Katie Cash [00:16:36]:
So, Jack, if I’m hearing you correctly, you’ve got phase one well underway. This has been a project long time coming, but there’s multiple phases still to come online in the future. So still opportunities maybe for some of our listeners that might have expertise in this area to look at pursuing future phased work. Is that correct?
Jack Cebe [00:16:57]:
Yeah, for sure. And the design build contract, when we get to letting of that, When GDOT gets to letting of that app, there’ll be putting out a call for proposals from Design Build joint ventures for that. So that’s. That’s a big opportunity that’s, you know, a part of phase one.
Katie Cash [00:17:18]:
So you and your role. What do you like to look for when you are considering and vetting design and construction partners? Like, what’s most important to you when you’re looking for those firms?
Jack Cebe [00:17:31]:
Yeah, well, you know, I think in this project’s case, there are so many important considerations. I’m just trying to remember back to when we were vetting, we. We had a lot of great qualified teams propose on this project. And I think really what stood out to us about the team that we selected was, you know, One, their understanding and ability to deliver on, you know, a project like this, which is, you know, it has, you know, a lot of components of interstate bridge construction, of park construction, of green roof construction, public involvement, your context sensitive solutions has all of those. But unlike I think other projects, really the key is making sure all of those different components work well together, which is a challenge. That’s the real challenge of this, a project like the Stytch. And so this team had delivered projects like this before. They understand how to deliver major infrastructure projects in Georgia and the needs of Georgia Department of Transportation and the city and all the partners who are involved in this type of project.
Jack Cebe [00:19:01]:
And I think the commitment to making sure we seize on this opportunity because this is a huge investment and a huge opportunity if we get it right and a huge missed opportunity if we, we get it wrong. And so I mean just the, the responsiveness to all the different demands that a project like this has is also key. And just, you know, I think we felt when we selected this team that they really, you know, checked all those boxes, you know, from, you know, having all the, the qualifications, but also being able to communicate as a team internally and also be responsive as a team to us, the client and the other stakeholders in the project and balance, you know, sometimes competing needs and interests. So I think that was, you know, all those things were really big factors when selecting the team led by WSP and Parker Jones that we’re working with.
Katie Cash [00:20:13]:
That’s great. For any of the listeners that want to know more about the stitch, Jack and his team have put together a really great website. You can visit thestitchatl.com and take a virtual tour, see some of the project overviews. There’s lots of ways that you can subscribe to stay up to date on the project as it moves through. So I’m going to direct listeners to the website to go get that information. But Jack, I want to spend maybe the next few minutes talking a little bit more about you and something that stands out to me when I look at your career, not only are you somehow bridging both landscape architecture, very creative with a civil engineer mind. I’m married to a civil engineer and he can never be a landscape architect like those two halves of his brain don’t, don’t connect. So it’s pretty impressive that you’ve done that.
Katie Cash [00:21:04]:
But what’s also impressive is how you’ve often shaped these kind of coalitions around you where you’re bringing together public agencies, the private partners, you’ve got the community involved. So I want to talk a little bit about how you’ve utilized relationships to help shape, you know, your professional, personal journey, how they influence how you make decisions, kind of how you view the currency of, of the modern day relationship. I want to spend a little bit of time talking about that.
Jack Cebe [00:21:36]:
Yeah, well, I think, you know, some of the most valuable education I got as I was, you know, going through college and grad school was that landscape architecture degree. And I’ve, I’ve always been, you know, really, you know. Yes, I am a landscape architect and engineer and have designed both types of projects and you know, understand, I think have, have one foot in each sandbox and really understand, you know, what different disciplines are, you know, where they’re coming from on, on different issues. And, and I think, you know, one of the things that the landscape architecture program that I was in, you know, taught me early on was just the power of being able to take input from others. You really understand, I think, what the critical issues are with the different stakeholders being able to effectively listen and translate that into solutions that I think work for everyone. The stitch is not my idea. It’s a very exciting idea and people, I think much more creative than I am, came up with this idea and this solution for this part of downtown. And you know, I think my, my sweet spot is, you know, trying to find a way to address all these different needs of all the different stakeholders to figure out how to make something like this happen.
Jack Cebe [00:23:11]:
It’s about listening, it’s about effective communications. Because a project like this doesn’t happen without public support and vocal public support, whether it’s, you know, the business community downtown, the general public being in the news cycle, we gotta do all those things to make a project like this happen. And so, yeah, I mean, at the end of the day I feel like I’m, I’m really just more than anything trying to take inputs from people and turn those into directions that address all the different needs of all the different stakeholders of the project. And I think that’s really where I think landscape architects training serves us well and being able to do that. And then I think the background in civil engineering has helped me understand where civil engineers are coming from, trying to make those two project partners key project partners make it so that they’re able to, to work well together and get some really inspiring things done. So, yeah, I think, I think that’s, that’s kind of, you know, my key place and how I fit into this project, helping to move it forward.
Katie Cash [00:24:30]:
That’s awesome. You started talking a little Bit about communication. And I have to imagine these complex projects where you’ve got, you know, these tiered, layered project teams. How do you orchestrate communication across those diverse project teams and know who’s getting the right information and who’s supposed to respond, Kind of holding accountability for that. What does that look like, Jack?
Jack Cebe [00:24:57]:
A lot of meetings, as you can imagine, a lot of documentation. And, you know, I think just, you know, a lot of it boils down to good project management skills, being able to balance the needs of the project, you know, with. With the budget and set expectations and reinforce expectations when needed. And I think just understand how all these different, you know, components of the project come together. And, you know, one of the things that I think I reflect on from my days, I think being on the design delivery side, that was frustrating to me, and I’m assuming to others, too, who are in the same situation, is you’re working with clients that don’t give you kind of the full picture of why decisions are being made, why a certain direction is being set. And so now that I’m on the client side, I think having that consulting background has been really helpful in understanding how to communicate, effectively communicate to our consultant partners, because they’re part of the team and you gotta keep them in the loop and you don’t want to. You have to build trust. And, yeah, you’re paying them to do this work for you, but you’re gonna get a better product if they have the full picture.
Jack Cebe [00:26:32]:
They feel like they’re part of the team and in the fold. And so I really try to treat it as we’re all teammates working towards this common goal and provide all the information, the background information on why we’re taking a certain direction or changing direction, being as transparent as possible, because ultimately it’s working with people and you have to treat others like you’d want to be treated on your team. So really try to strive to create that sort of, you know, working environment among our team moving this project forward.
Katie Cash [00:27:12]:
While we all are professionals in our services, are basically our. Our knowledge and expertise, we’re all coming together to do these projects. And it’s not if, but when a challenge is going to arise, especially on a complex project like one of these capping projects. So, Jack, do you have any advice for our listeners that might be young in their career on how do they authentically build relationships kind of across the team or, you know, up and down the ladder of. Of their organization so that they can start building their own tribe where they hit these challenges? They’ve got a group to go to, you know, to kind of bounce ideas around or to get solutions and stuff like that. I think there’s this growing concern that younger generations have worked so autonomously and with technology that outside of that, if the answer’s not right there on the computer screen, they don’t really know how to problem solve. And a lot of that the older generations really got from their network. So, you know, anything to speak to there.
Jack Cebe [00:28:19]:
I think as a, as a millennial, I, you know, I have experienced a little bit of both, I guess. Yeah, I think that I feel fortunate that, you know, I was in place early on in my career. You know, a big office where you just walk around the office and oh, you need to go talk to so and so in water to get their, you know, thoughts on that and you strike up water cooler conversations and, and get to know, you know, other people in the office. So, and I know it’s a lot of people are working more remotely now. It’s harder to have those kind of random conversations where you people, you, you build your network. So, you know, I might not be the best person to tell people how to do it, but, you know, I, I definitely think it’s, it’s, it’s super important to be intentional about, you know, reaching out to others and asking questions. I think, you know, now inviting people to chat, inviting people, whether it’s virtual or going out for a coffee making space for that is just so important for expanding, yes, your resources and also your own knowledge. Because I think ultimately we learn best from doing and from learning from others.
Jack Cebe [00:29:44]:
And I feel lucky to have had some very good mentors in my career and have, you know, an environment where I could just kind of walk around the office and people questions and you know, I, I imagine it would be pretty challenging to have those things as a young professional. But yeah, just I think encourage young professionals to seek that out if it’s not immediately available. And some of these new tools are, I think, great ways to reach out to people that probably I didn’t, you know, necessarily have access to early on my career like LinkedIn. I mean, like, I can’t tell you how many people cold connect me on LinkedIn and say, hey, I’m a student and would love to grab coffee or do a 30 minute teams meeting and think so many professionals always understand the value of that, you know, for, for them when they were in that seat and they’re often very willing to, to give their time. I always try to give my time to young professionals and we’re trying to grow their network and grow their, their expertise. Don’t be afraid to, to reach out to, to other people. One of the things I, I also encourage is, you know, when you’re a young professional or student, like go to as many conferences as you can, you know, while they’re, they’re cheap, you know, you can go to a lot of conferences for free. As a student, I think, you know, I was coming into the job market and the Great Recession out of undergrad and I was like, you know, well, I’m just gonna try to network my tail off and see what happens.
Jack Cebe [00:31:24]:
And I went to anything, you know, remotely related to landscape architecture. That’s ultimately how I got an internship that led to my first job. And yeah, just the value of face to face interaction, whether it’s your in person meeting or a network event or even like a virtual meeting where you have your camera on. So it’s so invaluable. Any young professionals out there get involved in professional organizations, go to conferences, go network, you know, strike up conversations with people in your office. Like that is so much more valuable than any other aspects in the long run for your career. Right. You know, I mean you need to.
Jack Cebe [00:32:10]:
Certifications are important, you know, being understanding processes are important in, you know, the, for near term goals, but for the long term arc of your career, like your network is everything.
Katie Cash [00:32:22]:
So for sure, great, great advice. And Jack, thank you so much for joining me on the show today and for sharing a little bit about your journey, your pass points and certainly giving us the inside scoop on the Stitch. So again I’m just going to remind everyone, if you want to learn more about the project, the Stitch, go to the stitch atl.com that’s where you can find all the plans and all the frequently asked questions, all the good stuff there. And I think, Jack, you just gave everybody an open call to connect with you on LinkedIn if you want to.
Jack Cebe [00:32:55]:
Sure, yeah, yeah, absolutely. Yeah, I will respond in time. Maybe not immediately, but I will definitely get back to you.
Katie Cash [00:33:03]:
Absolutely. And thank you everyone for listening till the end. This has been another episode of AEC Marketing for Principals and we’ll see you next time. Thanks everyone. AEC Marketing for Principles is presented by smartigies, the AEC growth consulting firm that has been developing smart business strategies for design and construction firms since 2008. The show is hosted by me, Katie Cash, Senior VP at smartigees. I would love to hear from you. If you have a question, a guest request or a topic request for a future episode, send an email or a voice memo to podcastmartigees.com and if you’re looking for past episodes, be sure to visit our podcast [email protected] podcast.
Katie Cash [00:33:48]:
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