Katie Cash [00:00:02]:
Welcome to the AEC Marketing for Principals podcast. This show is designed as a conversation between sales and marketing principals to address trends, challenges, and best practices that are driving growth for professional service firms. Through our collection of discussions with subject matter experts, industry legends, and leaders, we aim to share thoughts and practical tips with our listeners that you can use for growing your AEC brands. Hosted by me, Katie Cash, Senior Vice President at Smartegies, the AEC growth consulting firm that’s been developing smart business strategies for design and construction firms since 2008.
Katie Cash [00:00:44]:
Hi everyone. Welcome back to the podcast. If you are like any of our other listeners, I know you realize we spend a lot of time here talking about how to win work with different institutions, different owners, both public and private. And sometimes we find that the most valuable conversation comes from actually talking to the individuals that sit on the other side of the table, those individuals that are in a position to hire and recommend design and construction professionals. And today’s guest is someone that has actually sat on both sides, both as a practitioner and as a hirer of professional service providers. So I am excited to welcome back Howard Wertheimer, who began his career, I won’t say how long ago, Howard, but began his career as an architect and practiced for a good while before moving into more of a leadership role with some really respected institutions across the academic spectrum. I know I first met you, Howard, when you were doing your time at Georgia Tech, and now you serve as the interim associate vice chancellor for facilities over at UNC Chapel Hill, where you also get the opportunity to take a look at the planning, design, construction, everything that Chapel Hill has to offer across all of their campuses. So I’m really excited to get connected today and talk a little bit about your perspective and what’s changing in the world of academic design and construction and to get your perspective.
Katie Cash [00:02:15]:
So Howard, welcome back to the show.
Howard Wertheimer [00:02:18]:
Great, Katie. Thanks for having me back. Good to see you, and I look forward to our conversation.
Katie Cash [00:02:23]:
Yeah. And if any of you didn’t catch last time when Howard was on, you can just go back a few seasons. You can find it on the Smartegies website at smartegies.com. But today, one of the reasons I wanted to have you back, Howard, is because, you know, your career path is somewhat typical, but somewhat unusual at the same time in that you started first designing and providing solutions for clients in your private practice. And then you moved to the owner side and you’ve had the opportunity to sit at different tables for different owners. And so I really just wanted to dive into what your perspective looks like these days as you’ve been both on that provider side and on the owner side. So, um, let’s start there. When you first made that transition from practicing architecture to selecting architects, what was one of the big observations that you took into account?
Howard Wertheimer [00:03:20]:
Terrific question. So, you know, when I was in private practice, I worked on probably 30 campuses around the country working on projects, whether it’s planning projects, designing projects, you know, and as a practitioner, you parachute in on a campus, you do a project, you go away for a few years, then you parachute in again. And my clients were always licensed architects, professional engineers, MBAs, PhDs, MDs. And, you know, so they were at the top of their professions as the owner and owner representatives. And I was always curious to see what it would be like to be the owner. An opportunity presented itself at Georgia Tech and where I actually had done a couple of projects, capital projects there. So I took that position. I led the capital planning and space management portfolio, was the university architect, and I was there for 13 years and put in place about $1.5 billion worth of significant sustainable capital investments.
Howard Wertheimer [00:04:30]:
Today, that’s probably worth $2.5 or $3 billion. So it was nice to sort of be on the other side of the table and working with really great design and construction professionals. And the big difference, rather than parachute in and do a project, I had the opportunity to work on every project, and, uh, which was incredibly rewarding.
Katie Cash [00:04:57]:
Looking back at your time at Georgia Tech, what project stands out to you that you still think about and you’re like, man, I got to be part of that. That was so special.
Howard Wertheimer [00:05:06]:
Well, so the way I looked at every project at Georgia Tech, every project site was 400 acres. So it wasn’t just sort of one little piece that was bounded by a street or a road or an existing building. So I sort of had this holistic approach to the campus and every project. And at a university, there’s no backdoor, but you still have backdoor activities that you need to address, but you have to address Utility distribution systems, stormwater runoff, pedestrian pathways, vehicular pathways, transit pathways. So it’s this holistic integration of all of these things and having this larger view. But as far as specific projects, I would say, you know, I’ve got 3 children and I love ’em all the same, but I might not always like them the same. But I think a few certainly stand out. I think the Kendeda Building for Innovative Sustainable Design is one that was really a game changer for higher education and for me and for Georgia Tech to be able to prove to the world that you can do a fully certified living building in the hot, humid climate of Atlanta, Georgia.
Katie Cash [00:06:26]:
Yeah.
Howard Wertheimer [00:06:26]:
But there were many other projects, you know, Clough Commons, one of the largest LEED Platinum buildings on a university campus. Krohn Engineered Biosystems Building, an AIA Committee on the Environment Top 10 Award-winning Platinum, LEED Platinum building. But it’s also the space between the buildings that we really helped transform campus. So I really look at the campus as a project, and it was the knitting together of these pieces of the puzzle that really made the entire campus work very well.
Katie Cash [00:07:03]:
I think that’s something that Georgia Tech does really, really well is not just thinking about the 4 walls of the project at hand, but really how it fits into the whole campus. Not to date myself, but I spent a lot of time on that campus, you know, during my undergraduate time in the early 2000s when dating my husband. And that campus looks a lot different than it does today. And the students are using the in-between parts of the building a lot. And, you know, just about every part of that campus is activated in some way. And it’s, a lot of them do, you know, stand as pillars of these sustainable design practices. There’s a lot of those, I think, across the campus that they do really, really well. And I just want to use that maybe as a launching pad, Howard, to talk a little bit more about, you know, from your time.
Katie Cash [00:07:51]:
Yeah.
Katie Cash [00:07:52]:
As an architect where you were parachuting in on different campuses, your time at Georgia Tech to now your time at UNC, what have you seen as being some of those major themes of change that are sweeping across these academic campuses and how are they evolving to keep up with the times?
Howard Wertheimer [00:08:10]:
You know, I think, you know, there are a lot of similarities between the two, but a lot of differences as well. You know, they’re both top-tier public universities serving the citizens of their states, their respective states. So there’s a responsibility as a public university that Georgia Tech has and UNC Chapel Hill has, and we take that responsibility very seriously. UNC is the first public university in the United States, and we’ve been around for 230 years. And with that, we have a lot of older buildings. So one of the big challenges we have, and all campuses have these challenges, and that’s deferred maintenance. So we probably have $1 billion worth of deferred maintenance on our campus. And because we are a state university, we’re one of 17 campuses within a system, our state appropriations are limited.
Howard Wertheimer [00:09:11]:
We cannot address all of these issues. So with older building inventory, we have roofs that leak, elevators that fail, mechanical systems that aren’t working properly. So we’re trying to be very deliberate in mapping out a plan that will enable us to chip away to bridge the gap between the haves and the have-nots. Obviously, the haves are the newer buildings on campus. But there’s a big delta between those and some of our older buildings that may not have received the attention that they deserve. So we’re trying to develop more methodical processes to identify funding sources to make those strategic investments.
Katie Cash [00:10:03]:
Yeah. And, you know, sometimes those aren’t the sexy things that people really want to donate to, right? You know, as alumni giving back, but they’re things that are really, really necessary that do allow you to extend the life of the building itself when you can properly maintain it and keep it running well. But I don’t think it’s unique just to universities. I think a lot of institutional facilities experience the challenges of, of the maintenance and operating costs, and they have a lot of that kind of backlog built up, the deferred maintenance challenges.
Howard Wertheimer [00:10:34]:
Yeah, exactly. You know, you know, buildings are machines. You know, we all, you know, most people have cars that require care and feeding.
Katie Cash [00:10:42]:
Uh-huh.
Howard Wertheimer [00:10:42]:
And if you want them to operate at a very efficient level, and, you know, at UNC Chapel Hill, we have somewhere in the range of 540 buildings on 700 acres.
Katie Cash [00:10:55]:
Oh man.
Howard Wertheimer [00:10:56]:
I didn’t know we had so many. So there are a lot of moving parts out there. One unique thing at UNC, so the university acquired an abandoned airport.
Katie Cash [00:11:07]:
Okay.
Howard Wertheimer [00:11:07]:
About a mile and a half from campus.
Katie Cash [00:11:10]:
For what purposes?
Howard Wertheimer [00:11:12]:
Well, for future development. And now we’re moving forward. We just hired a master planning team. So it’s about 950 acres and about 700 of those acres are forests that will stay, but about 230 acres will be redeveloped as mixed-use development, student housing, academic and research. You know, recreation for our students. Uh, you know, housing.
Katie Cash [00:11:38]:
So you’re not adding a flight school? You’re not adding anything like that? Nope. Nope.
Howard Wertheimer [00:11:43]:
No airport. No airport. So it’s just a very unique opportunity, but maybe that’s a conversation for another day.
Katie Cash [00:11:51]:
Well, I think that is very, very interesting. And, you know, land is scarce around a lot of campuses and you have to get creative with what you have. I don’t know if there’s precedent. Has anybody else bought an old airport and refurbished it for university use?
Howard Wertheimer [00:12:08]:
There may be some examples out there, but, you know, for me and my team and for the university, you know, you don’t have an opportunity in one’s lifetime very often to design a new university campus from scratch.
Katie Cash [00:12:23]:
Right. That’s pretty special.
Howard Wertheimer [00:12:25]:
So, you know, people who know about activities in North Carolina all are aware of this. It’s called Carolina North.
Katie Cash [00:12:33]:
Okay. I was going to ask you, will it be a new, like, extension? Like you have UNC Greensboro, UNC Charlotte.
Howard Wertheimer [00:12:40]:
No, it’s, it’ll be part of UNC Chapel Hill.
Katie Cash [00:12:42]:
Okay.
Howard Wertheimer [00:12:44]:
You know, as a placeholder, the area has been called Carolina North for a while, but, you know, it may have, you know, something, something at Carolina North. That could be cool. I don’t know. So we’ll see.
Katie Cash [00:13:00]:
That’s fun. Yeah, that’s something you could sink your teeth into and then, you know, kind of bookend the end of your career. That’d be awesome. Yeah.
Howard Wertheimer [00:13:08]:
So certainly lots of opportunities for design and construction professionals out there.
Katie Cash [00:13:15]:
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Katie Cash [00:14:12]:
Go on over to Amazon. You can search for The Modern AEC Marketer, and you can get a copy of Judy’s new book today. It’s available in paperback as well as on Kindle. Okay, let’s talk, Howard, maybe a little bit more practical. Let’s talk a little bit more about UNC and these 700 acres and all of these buildings. And I know a lot of our listeners might be actively chasing work or deciding whether or not they may be chasing some of the work coming out of the UNC system. So talk to us a little bit about how UNC thinks about capital planning today, you know, the types of projects that are getting the attention and kind of, and the roadmap moving forward in the not too distant future?
Howard Wertheimer [00:15:03]:
Sure. So within the University System of North Carolina, each campus has to submit a capital improvement plan every 2 years.
Katie Cash [00:15:15]:
Okay.
Howard Wertheimer [00:15:15]:
So this is the year that we’ll be submitting our capital improvement plan. So we are going through that planning exercise as we speak, and we will identify a long list of items that are part of the 6-year plan. But you have the— we have the opportunity to reprioritize and develop new projects to put on the list that we foresee in the next couple of years.
Katie Cash [00:15:40]:
Okay.
Howard Wertheimer [00:15:41]:
So there are state appropriations associated with that, the philanthropy. So different colors of money, and we try to understand what that is. What I’m trying to do at UNC is develop, improve our processes for pre-planning so that whatever a project is, we’re investing upfront, scoping out a project, putting an order of magnitude of a budget together, you know, working with the different user groups and stakeholders so that when it gets placed on our our capital improvement plan, we have a rough order of magnitude and a scope of what that project will be. You know, and then all of being a public university, that’s all out there in the public domain for people to see. And they can see what’s, what are our priorities and whether it’s you’re a design consultant or a construction professional, if there’s something that is in your wheelhouse, we advertise publicly.
Katie Cash [00:16:39]:
Mm-hmm.
Howard Wertheimer [00:16:40]:
But if you’re interested in meeting with me or any of my colleagues, I met with a contractor this morning. I’m meeting with a design professional this afternoon. I try to accommodate as best I can to meet with people who are interested in doing work here to help them be better positioned to pursue work and be successful. Because if they’re successful, then me and my team are successful and the university is successful. So when I was in private practice, I always respected the owner representatives who would welcome the opportunity to meet with me, and I try to maintain that same culture wherever I am. I did it at Georgia Tech and I’m doing it here at UNC. So it’s a team effort.
Katie Cash [00:17:27]:
Yeah.
Katie Cash [00:17:28]:
I think that’s something that a lot of firms that take advantage of it really do benefit from that, learn a lot, you know, certainly gives them an opportunity to start building a relationship with you and your team. But then a lot of the firms don’t even know that it’s possible. So maybe 2 follow-ups there, Howard, for anyone listening that maybe hasn’t had a chance to meet with you and your team, what’s the best way for them to reach out for that first encounter meet and greet?
Howard Wertheimer [00:17:54]:
An email.
Katie Cash [00:17:55]:
An email.
Howard Wertheimer [00:17:56]:
Okay. Email address is worthy, W-E-R-T-H-Y, Well, that’s a whole lot easier than your old Georgia Tech email. Yep, it is. So, you know, we’ll set something up to, you know, do an informal meet and greet where people can learn about opportunities, see where they might have the requisite experiences and be a good fit. And then they can make the business decision whether to pursue.
Katie Cash [00:18:29]:
And you mentioned a little bit earlier, you know, because it’s a public university, you know, you follow certain rules and guidelines for advertising and going through procurement. Can you talk a little bit more about that? Where are you advertising the opportunities? Who makes up the selection committees? What does that process look like for UNC?
Howard Wertheimer [00:18:50]:
So we post it. You know, RFQs we will post on our facilities website. We post it on the state construction office website. I’m not sure how you subscribe to any of these, so I’ll leave that up to the— I should have asked somebody, yeah. You know, marketing folks at the respective firms to figure out how to make those digital connections so that you don’t miss opportunities to pursue projects of interest. And then what we do, we have, you know, our facilities team will lead most of the capital projects.
Katie Cash [00:19:28]:
Okay.
Howard Wertheimer [00:19:28]:
And we have user stakeholders involved. Sometimes we have a board of trustee member that will sit in on the selection committee interviews. We will do the shortlisting internally with the stakeholders and facilities folks. But the interviews, yeah, North Carolina’s a little bit different than some states. So at least at UNC Chapel Hill, we have a board of trustees and a project has to get approved by the board of trustees for what’s called advanced planning. So it’s sort of, which really sort of takes a project through schematic design. And then once there’s a better handle on what that cost is, Then it goes and gets approved for the full capital expenditure, and that has to get approved by not only the board of trustees, but in the state of North Carolina, there’s a board of governors.
Katie Cash [00:20:23]:
Okay.
Howard Wertheimer [00:20:23]:
So there are a few gates that one has to pass through to ensure that a project moves forward out into the marketplace.
Katie Cash [00:20:33]:
What’s the typical timeline for that, Howard?
Howard Wertheimer [00:20:35]:
Well, it depends. So, you know, board of, so the board of trustees at UNC Chapel Hill, the agenda and meeting dates are publicly available. The board of governors for the state of North Carolina, all those dates are already published through May of 2027.
Katie Cash [00:20:57]:
Okay.
Howard Wertheimer [00:20:57]:
And the meetings are obviously open to the public. I think they do it through public broadcasting or YouTube. I’m not sure what vehicle they are, that they use. And the same with the Board of Trustees meetings for UNC Chapel Hill. Those meetings are also scheduled through May of 2027. Board of Governors meets almost monthly, Board of Trustees a little less often, but you can hear about what’s happening at our university.
Katie Cash [00:21:33]:
Well, that’s very helpful. I’m sure some of our listeners that are looking at their pipeline, trying to determine whether or not they’re going to pursue some work, will check out those resources and see if they’re a right partner, a right fit for you. My whole world, Howard, is really around marketing and communications, and I do work a lot with clients as they’re putting their, let’s say, pursuit strategies together and how are they going to plan their response to your publicly advertised opportunity. Let’s talk a little bit about your role and your team’s role there at UNC Chapel Hill as you’re reviewing the proposals that are submitted. What are you really looking for? I won’t put you on the spot and say, are you just using AI to scan and grade proposals these days? I like to think you still like to turn the pages and look at stuff. But walk us through, you know, when you’re doing that, what are you really looking for? You know, what— What matters most to your review teams?
Howard Wertheimer [00:22:30]:
Sure. So yes, I do read and turn the pages. You know, I think, and you may have heard me say this in the past, but, you know, firms have pictures, people have experience. So if your firm is interested in doing a certain type of project, the resumes of your team need to have the requisite experience. Because of where we’re located and the net that we’re able to cast, the competition, as one could imagine, is pretty robust. So if I have the opportunity to select someone who’s done student housing as an example, and they have, they’ve done student housing at public universities versus someone who’s done apartment complexes in the private sector, I’m probably going to lean more towards the one who’s done student housing at a university, but not always, because we can learn from those who work in the private sector about efficiencies and better cost modeling. So it is important that people have the requisite experience and be very targeted. I’m sure you consult with your clients and tell them the same thing, not do a shotgun approach.
Katie Cash [00:23:51]:
Right.
Howard Wertheimer [00:23:52]:
Be very targeted about where you think your subject matter expertise aligns with the specific task at hand. The other part to think about is details. Yeah, before I came to UNC, I did a lot of consulting with design and construction firms, and I was shocked to see typos and cut and paste from previous proposals that nobody is reading. You know, the project principal is not reading all the details, or the project manager, the marketing coordinator’s doing the best they can, but when you misspell the name of a university or you have another university’s name, you know, your name here kind of thing, that is not well received. So attention to detail is critically important because that, for me at least, says a lot about the attention to detail that I could expect going forward should I engage with that company.
Katie Cash [00:25:02]:
You are not the first person, nor do I think you’ll be the last that we have on the show that talks about the importance of A good QA/QC before something gets submitted. And, you know, we can all appreciate wanting to open up the most recent winning proposal, use it as a base, you know, do the find and replace, but it still takes the human eye to go through it to make sure you catch all of those little references, maybe to the prior client, the project, the location of the project. I’ve heard lots of somewhat horror stories of owners reviewing proposals where they’re like, Did they really realize that they just submitted this to me? This is not my project, not my location. You know, they don’t even have my name on here. Nobody thought about it. So yeah, it does tarnish the reputation before you even get a chance.
Howard Wertheimer [00:25:53]:
The details matter. And yeah, and I would also add that because we are a public university, there are service providers outside of the state of North Carolina.
Katie Cash [00:26:04]:
Mm-hmm.
Howard Wertheimer [00:26:05]:
That it’s really important to affiliate and partner with someone who’s in North Carolina. You know, our board of trustees hopes that that would happen to help keep some of that, those dollars in state. It’s not always the case because the subject matter expertise may reside elsewhere, but it’s also beneficial when a project, at least from a design perspective, if the design professional is out of state, that there is a reasonably local representative who, if I call them up in an hour, you know, and say, can you be here?
Katie Cash [00:26:43]:
Yeah.
Howard Wertheimer [00:26:44]:
You know, tomorrow morning, I know that they can be here or the end of the day where if someone has to fly across the country, it’s hard to provide the level of service expectation that an owner would require.
Katie Cash [00:27:00]:
Sometimes has. Yeah. I’ve also heard, and Howard, maybe you can confirm or debunk this, on the construction side. So what you just described is kind of that, you know, national expert, local partner for architecture. But on the construction side, I’ve also heard that your construction team needs to have experience and an understanding of working with the state construction office. and their processes. Is that true? Can you give us a little bit more insight there on the working relationship between the university and that group? Yeah.
Howard Wertheimer [00:27:34]:
So obviously the state of North Carolina has what’s called a State Construction Office or SCO, and your listeners can go Google that and see what the State Construction Office manual is that it, you know, certain things that are required from a deliverable point of view, from a construction side. But, you know, the other part of that is how does someone who’s never done work in the state, how do they get that first opportunity?
Katie Cash [00:28:03]:
Right.
Howard Wertheimer [00:28:04]:
So, you know, it’s a little bit of a, you know, chicken and egg kind of thing. But, you know, maybe you can start with a small project and develop the skill sets and understand what the processes are and the submission process and design review and construction review processes and permitting processes so that then it’s easy to scale up over time. Yeah.
Katie Cash [00:28:27]:
It’s always a perceived lower risk to start with a smaller job than the big job to learn the ropes, right?
Howard Wertheimer [00:28:33]:
Absolutely. And it’s highly unlikely that we would, and it’s probably not just me, but other university representatives, people in similar positions, we would hire someone who has never done a project in the state and followed those processes and procedures because they can be onerous at times, but they’re really in the best interest of, you know, stewardship of taxpayer dollars.
Katie Cash [00:29:01]:
Gotcha. Okay. Well, all really good ideas. For the listeners, we’ll make sure we link all of those external references Howard mentioned in our show notes to make it easy for you to find those links. Howard, you know, before you and I got into today’s conversation, you were sharing with me that you’re gearing up for your annual, you know, getaway with your peers to talk about higher education planning and architecture. I would love to know what might be on your agenda with that group. Like, what’s top of mind for all of you sitting in, you know, campus planning and design across various institutions? What are you hoping to talk about with your peers over the coming days at that event?
Howard Wertheimer [00:29:43]:
Well, you know, I think we all have similar struggles. You know, there are external forces in the marketplace that none of us have control over. You know, we have a large student housing, 700-bed student housing project that will start construction the end of this summer. And we were just informed that the delivery time for steel, structural steel, has been delayed significantly because of the number of data centers being constructed in the region. So the steel fabricators only have so much bandwidth.
Katie Cash [00:30:23]:
Right.
Howard Wertheimer [00:30:24]:
So that’s nothing that we can control. And, you know, it’s hard to know what those economic factors are in the broader marketplace. You know, last year and I think there’s still some residual issues of tariffs and how do we properly budget our projects that we can have a level of confidence that we can deliver to our campus projects that are within reasonable costs. So—
Katie Cash [00:30:57]:
I want to ask you a follow-up, Howard, just on the steel erection piece. This is a challenge that I think just about every contractor is facing is this whole idea of material availability and confidence in the availability timeline. What type of collaboration and partnership are you expecting with your contractors as you’re going through, say, pre-con and getting into construction to know whether or not your project is going to hit? Because I imagine 700-room student housing, though you’re probably getting people to sign up and, you know, register for those rooms. What happens if they’re not ready, come, you know, campus opening? Where are you gonna put ’em? You know, how, what does that partnership need to look like today in, in the volatile market that we’re really living within?
Howard Wertheimer [00:31:49]:
Sure. So at the moment, we don’t have a plan B of where we would put those. We’re a couple years out from, you know, hopefully that’ll remedy itself, being able to open those doors. But one of the things that I started doing here, which we hadn’t done before, when we, a project like the 700-bed student housing, it’s called New Residence Hall. We have a great design team, we have a terrific construction management team. So it is CM at Risk delivery method, which is a delivery method that I prefer so that I can pick my A+ designer and my A+ constructor, and then we collaborate pretty robustly. And as a repeat client opportunity, you know, we all want to build success into that partnership. But I think what I have done, so when we are trying to reconcile budgets, the design team has a cost estimator, the CM is doing their cost estimating, so one is always high and so one is always low with unit costs and unit quantities.
Howard Wertheimer [00:32:50]:
So what we started doing is bringing in a third-party cost estimator who works directly for the university.
Katie Cash [00:32:58]:
Okay.
Howard Wertheimer [00:32:59]:
Who is a constructor. So they’re buying construction, and then they can have intelligent conversations to reconcile constructability issues that a cost estimator or, you know, folks at the university might not be able to see that, you know, we might not need the mason, the curtain wall sub, and miscellaneous metal sub to have scaffolding. We only need scaffolding in the budget one time, and it becomes a scheduling coordination issue. So we did that on this project and saved $3 million.
Katie Cash [00:33:32]:
Yeah.
Howard Wertheimer [00:33:33]:
And the CM who, you know, is our CM, you know, they’ve accepted all of the reconciliation. And, but, you know, all 3 parties, You know, the design team, the construction team, and then the owner team with our independent cost estimator, uh, we’re all comfortable with where the numbers landed.
Katie Cash [00:33:54]:
Well, that’s a great example of why that delivery method does work so well. I know a lot of owners do prefer that too.
Katie Cash [00:34:01]:
Yep.
Katie Cash [00:34:01]:
Um, all right, Howard, before you went to UNC, you mentioned you did some consulting and you worked a lot with various firms in the industry. Most of those, you know, clientele that you have are similar to the clients that we would have and our listeners to this show. So, what advice would you give them if they are looking to maybe strengthen their higher education practice? What should they focus on first? What would you tell them they should prioritize in 2026?
Howard Wertheimer [00:34:31]:
Hire people that have been in this space. You know, it’s, you know, if they don’t already exist, you know, invest in their professional development, send them to certain conferences where they can learn, you know, unique strategies, processes, develop an expanded network, expand their Rolodex. You know, we see a lot across the country of large firms becoming larger and making acquisitions. So the merger and acquisition space, it seems to be pretty robust. It’s a little scary, I think, for everybody involved. And for an owner, when one of these big conglomerates submits their qualifications, it ends up being one of these sub-firms that they acquired that has that subject matter expertise. So you really have to, as an owner, we have to peel back the onion to see, was it you know, Company X that did this, or is it this individual while they were with another company that has now been acquired by Company X? But the resumes speak for themselves. You know, again, firms have pictures, people have experience, and if folks have that experience, that’s great.
Howard Wertheimer [00:35:49]:
And if firms don’t have that experience, you don’t have to buy another company, but maybe you can recruit, you know, a small handful of people that have the relationships and the subject matter expertise to be able to open up doors and create new business opportunities for the company.
Katie Cash [00:36:05]:
That’s great. I think, um, we’ve had a handful of owners sit on this show talking about, you know, they didn’t realize that part of their job was they needed to be a forensic reporter because they’re trying to solve that equation you just mentioned, you know, whose experience is this? You know, is it The person who did it at a previous firm? Was it this firm? Was it the firm, but the people that you’re proposing weren’t on the job? Help me understand who really has this knowledge that they’re going to bring forward. And they find themselves flipping through the proposals still, but then they find themselves also going to the firm websites and going to the individual people’s LinkedIn pages to see what their tenure looked like and where they were. And, um, Takes a little bit more time these days to read the proposals than they said they used to.
Howard Wertheimer [00:36:54]:
Yeah, very much so. And I would just add to that, Katie, that there’s, you know, we talked about the details that when firms are proposing or submitting qualifications, references are critically important and updating the reference contact information is critically important. So I’m sure you have seen in the work that you do and the advising that you do to firms. You know, people are no longer with that company or that organization and the email address no longer works and the phone number no longer works. So again, it’s that attention to detail and, you know, to call those references in advance to let them know that, by the way, Yeah. we’re pursuing this project and, you know, we’re listing you as a reference. Are you comfortable with that? And that person, I get these calls all the time, you know, well, I may say, well, what is the project? And they’ll say, it’s, you know, a lab building and you worked on a lab building. So I’m happy to talk about, you know, your subject matter expertise related to that.
Howard Wertheimer [00:38:02]:
But if it’s, if I worked with you on a lab building, you’re pursuing a baseball stadium, I’m probably not the right person to have as a reference for you. Yeah.
Katie Cash [00:38:13]:
I think the call ahead for context is super helpful. Plus, it gives you an excuse to reach back out to that contact and check in with them. You know, it’s a great idea. Okay, Howard, I’m going to ask you this last one just because I just want to know your perspective on it. What do you say to firms, like I used to sit on the review team at JSVIC, when people say, here’s my project sheet, I did this project at Georgia Tech, now I’m pursuing work at UNC, you’re on the selection committee, I’ve written my proposal. You know, to Howard and selection committee members, on my Georgia Tech project, the reference I’m suggesting is you. How do you, how do you answer that? Like, how do you reference check yourself?
Howard Wertheimer [00:38:55]:
I actually think that’s fine.
Katie Cash [00:38:59]:
Okay.
Howard Wertheimer [00:38:59]:
You know, I don’t, I personally don’t have a problem with it. Others might, but universities are very complex owner organizations and in the service provider industry, Everybody’s a free agent and people come and go.
Katie Cash [00:39:16]:
Uh-huh.
Howard Wertheimer [00:39:17]:
And that happens. So, you know, we have selection committees and if my name is listed there as a reference, someone on the selection committee will say, you know, Howard, what do you think of Katie? You know, she has you as a reference here. And then I can say, you know, she’s great. You know, I, I would love to work with her again, you know?
Katie Cash [00:39:36]:
Okay.
Howard Wertheimer [00:39:37]:
She’s a superstar.
Katie Cash [00:39:39]:
So you’ll do that. And then you still, I still think it’s okay if you were my main guy, even if you’ve moved somewhere else, I would still put your contact information, but I would just say formerly, and then I would give them your new UNC contact number. Is that what you suggest too?
Howard Wertheimer [00:39:54]:
Yes.
Katie Cash [00:39:55]:
Yeah.
Howard Wertheimer [00:39:55]:
And I think as we started out this conversation, you know, we are in the relationship and people business.
Katie Cash [00:40:02]:
Absolutely.
Howard Wertheimer [00:40:02]:
And it’s important to maintain those relationships. So for your folks listening in, continue to maintain relationships with the folks you enjoyed working with. And if you had, planning, design, and construction is hard and sometimes things won’t work out perfectly, but run to the problem to help solve it. Don’t run away from the problem.
Katie Cash [00:40:31]:
Yeah. Doing nothing is not going to do anything for you, right?
Howard Wertheimer [00:40:35]:
Correct. And, you know, people, there’s a long shelf life of memory of things that didn’t go well, but how people respond to that has a longer shelf life.
Katie Cash [00:40:49]:
Yeah, absolutely. Someone else that I had interviewed on this show before said, you know, the strength of your relationships is measured by your willingness to have the hard conversations. So when something’s not going Right. Sometimes the best thing you can do is own up to it. Hey, the steal, it’s not in our timeline right now. We need to come up with a plan B. Let’s get ahead of it. I’m not gonna stick my head in the sand and pretend like it’s gonna go away.
Katie Cash [00:41:16]:
Let’s work towards a solution. So—
Howard Wertheimer [00:41:18]:
You’re absolutely right.
Katie Cash [00:41:20]:
Great. Well, Howard, thank you so much for carving some time out and coming back on the show. I, I always appreciate your perspective and You know, you just kind of gave the best soundbite earlier. It just reminds us that winning work is more than responding to an RFP. It’s a relationship business and success is built on managing those relationships and staying in touch and, um, looking out for the long haul. So I really appreciate that. Everyone listening, thanks for staying until the end and we’ll see you right here next time on the next episode of AEC Marketing for Principals.
Katie Cash [00:41:55]:
AEC Marketing for Principles is presented by Smartegies, the AEC growth consulting firm that has been developing smart business strategies for design and construction firms since 2008. The show is hosted by me, Katie Cash, Senior VP at Smartegies. I would love to hear from you. If you have a question, a guest request, or a topic request for a future episode, send an email Or a voice memo to [email protected]. And if you’re looking for past episodes, be sure to visit our podcast page at smartegies.com/podcast. We hope you’ll tell your friends and colleagues about our show and be sure to subscribe so you don’t miss out on future episodes. Thanks for listening.