Katie Cash [00:00:02]:
Welcome to the AEC Marketing for Principals podcast. This show is designed as a conversation between sales and marketing principals to address trends, challenges, and best practices that are driving growth for professional service firms. Through our collection of discussions with subject matter experts, industry legends, and leaders, we aim to share thoughts and practical tips with our listeners that that you can use for growing your AEC brands. Hosted by me, Katie Cash, Senior Vice President at Smartegies, the AEC growth consulting firm that’s been developing smart business strategies for design and construction firms since 2008.
Katie Cash [00:00:44]:
When you think about an industry leader or a brand that might be leading the way, specifically, let’s say, in architecture and design, Gensler is probably on the tip of your tongue in those conversations. And we all know that behind those those brands that are moving and shaking the industry sits a handful of leaders who are shaping culture within those organizations, and they’re guiding clients through uncertain times and certainly refining what impact looks like in the built environment. So I’m excited to bring to the show today Tory Winn, who is the principal and co-managing director for Gensler’s Atlanta office. Really, really excited to have you with us, Tory. I know that you have been at the forefront of shaping the future of design across the Southeast through that Atlanta office. I understand you were employee number 1 in Atlanta, and wow, how that office has grown. And somehow you find time to give back to the community, and you are actively engaged in organizations like Leadership Atlanta and the Atlanta Chamber, Rotary Club, you know, all kinds of civic initiatives. And I think that’s probably contributed to your, your leadership view of things, but I’m so excited that you’ve joined us.
Katie Cash [00:01:55]:
Thank you for taking time today.
Tory Winn [00:01:57]:
Well, it’s an absolute pleasure. Thank you, Katie, for inviting me. I’m just thrilled to be here, and I know we’re going to have a great conversation.
Katie Cash [00:02:04]:
Well, let’s jump in. This season, Tory, on the show, we are talking about changemakers. So obviously, you are one of those. Your firm is one of those. And there’s lots of change happening today. I want to start maybe from the perspective of this generational shift that’s kind of happening across firms, this whole idea of hybrid work and, you know, are you hiring AI agents these days? Are you hiring real people? There’s lots of questions there. So, let me just start with, you know, you’re co-leading one of the largest offices for Gensler. What does modern leadership look like today?
Tory Winn [00:02:45]:
Well, it’s interesting that you started with hybrid work because at Gensler, We are not hybrid. So I know that that probably could be controversial in some sectors. But for us, it is really a part of our values and principles to be deeply connected to each other and have a level of care and investment in each other’s development and future. And the same thing with our clients. So being present and connected with each other every day is something that we value deeply. Is a big part of what I think it’s— I don’t know that it’s modern. I think it’s more universal. And in our world, in the way that we operate, that is just core to who we are.
Katie Cash [00:03:36]:
It’s so funny. You know, where I sit at Smartagees, we’re a fully remote firm and we have been since COVID And we were in the early days, then we went in office, and then we went away. And there’s benefits to that, but I will tell you, there is something magical that happens when we all come together. And so, you know, we try to make time to have that face-to-face. And we just had that event, big event last week where we were all together. And it was so funny, you know, everybody’s like, oh my gosh, you have a lower half of your body, because we only see each other on Teams. Yeah, you think you know somebody, but then you actually get to sit down and, you know, share a meal or share an Uber or something to forge some of those relationships. So it might not be modern, and it might be polarizing, but you know what works for your organization.
Katie Cash [00:04:23]:
You certainly lean into it, and continue to be able to attract the best and the brightest talent to come join you.
Tory Winn [00:04:29]:
Yeah, I agree. And absolutely what works for us does not work for other companies and other industries. Totally respect that and support that. But for us, being as collaborative as we are, and it really, we do our best work when we are together. And from a mentorship perspective, it is really invaluable to be able to sit with people in a design charrette and bounce ideas off of each other. It’s valuable to be able to overhear a conversation with a client or a contractor or an engineer and how each of us handles those circumstances. Our younger talent, there are a couple of few years there where they missed a lot of that interaction. And so we’re having to kind of rebuild that muscle, help people— well, not rebuild, but build that muscle from scratch in many cases.
Tory Winn [00:05:26]:
But I think it’s just what works for each organization. And maybe where we are headed with this is knowing your organization and being true to your values and principles and leading with that. And as long as you sort of do that, that feeds behaviors, which feeds culture and all of that. If we are consistent in those values and principles and behaviors, then we attract talent who shares those values. And so it’s something that we’ve operated under that premise since 1965, and it really works for us. But I think in a modern leadership model for me right now, the way I think about it is kind of like, for me personally, it’s think about it as sort of the head and the heart. So on the head side, leading with innovation, the best research and thought leadership, and bringing and developing the best talent, technology. But then all of those things being part of our structure and part of our ethos and what makes us successful.
Tory Winn [00:06:38]:
But that alone would not make us a successful firm. The other part of that is the level of deep care that we have for our people and our clients. And so it’s— and I’d even go so far as to say that the heart part comes first.
Katie Cash [00:06:55]:
I think that’s really good advice. And, you know, the— we’ll just call it the jobs market for AEC has been so competitive in the last years, and I don’t see that letting up just based on, you know, graduates and other folks deciding it’s now time for them to retire. But I think a lot of firms kind of lost who they were trying to compete and keeping up with the Joneses of what everybody else was trying to offer and how they were going about things and feeling like they were losing candidates because they weren’t remote or feeling like whatever it was. And in all of that season of change, they really forgot who they were, and then that started to cause fractures internally around their culture. They weren’t attracting the same kind of people anymore, so now there’s a bigger wedge in the talent gap and how they’re trying to fix that. Client service suffered, sometimes quality suffered. And so I think that’s really, really helpful for all of us to understand is, you know, everybody that’s owning and running one of the organizations within our AEC space is to really understand your why behind your organization. What does your head say? What does your heart say? What can you uniquely do? You know, what does your organization uniquely fulfill in this space? And not try to compete with everybody else on all the other levels.
Katie Cash [00:08:14]:
And I think when you stay strong in who you are and your convictions around what your brand stands for, you’re gonna attract like-minded individuals like you mentioned. You know, you’re gonna attract the talent that gravitates towards that, that believes what you believe, and you’re gonna attract clients that respect that way as well.
Tory Winn [00:08:31]:
91% of Gensler’s business is repeat clients, which is a pretty crazy high number. And I think in this forum of people that are looking to build business, I think that absolutely is a direct connection to our staying true to who we are, you know, and, and staying true to those core values. And it’s like, not rinse and repeat, but it’s very much of like, this is who we are. This is the way we treat our clients. This is the way we treat our people. These, these are the expectations. This is, these are the behaviors. And, you know, we all know in, marketing people all know, like that it certainly costs a lot less to maintain and grow existing clients than it is to go out and try to fish for new ones.
Tory Winn [00:09:25]:
So that could be something like, and the reason to stay focused on what matters to you and stick with it is that, you know, I think is the potential for repeat business.
Katie Cash [00:09:39]:
Hey listeners, if you work in AEC marketing or business development, you probably are juggling a lot right now between proposals, interviews, leadership expectations, onboarding new tools, maybe even new strategies, and you find yourself faced with not a lot of training that actually applies to our unique world of AEC. And that’s exactly why we built SmartSkills. I am excited to announce that Smartageeze is launching SmartSkills, a new affordable online AEC-specific training subscription program that’s designed to help AEC marketers and business development professionals think more strategically and execute with more confidence. This program is not generic marketing theory. It’s practical, tactical training focused on AEC positioning, pursuit strategies, even client engagement, and ways that you can work more effectively across both marketing and business development. I hope you’ll check it out. Go over to smartages.com/smartskills to learn more about the new subscription offering. You started to mention, something that I kind of hold side by side when I think of the Gensler brand, and that is the depth and the quality of the research and, um, the sheer content quantity that you guys are often producing.
Katie Cash [00:10:59]:
You know, usually if there’s an industry topic, I can go to y’all’s website and see what you’ve already talked about because you’re always on the front end of reporting those things. So You mentioned that’s kind of part of y’all’s kind of core culture belief and continues to move forward. What are some of the things now that you’re looking at in terms of signals or, you know, ways you’re thinking about the AEC market as a whole that you’re kind of tuning into and paying attention to? Can you give us any insight there?
Tory Winn [00:11:29]:
Yeah, I mean, there’s lots and lots of discussion around AI, which is which I think when you’re a firm as large as we are, I mean, we’re the largest firm in the world. And so we can’t really afford to wait and see what others are doing. We are going to have to lead. And so we have developed proprietary tools that we own and can use to help us bring resources and insight to our projects and to our clients in terms of visualization and iteration and development. That others can’t offer. And so we’re always having to stay one step ahead. So there’s sort of, again, and there seems to be a little bit of a theme here, but sort of there’s that side of it, which is around cutting-edge technology and innovation and those sorts of tools. But then on the other side, it’s really about the human experience.
Tory Winn [00:12:24]:
And so that, to me, that cuts across every sector, every practice area. From civic work to workplace to sports and entertainment to education, we really are focused on the people that use the space, how they use the space, what it’s— how it’s enhancing their lives and their experience. And that, again, has not— that’s not something new for us. That’s been at the core of who we’ve been as a firm since the beginning. We’ve always been a One of our guiding principles is like we are a constellation of stars. So there’s no, there’s no black cape architect at Gensler. We all are, are deeply invested in the people that use our space and our owners and our clients. And, and it’s, it’s a co-collaboration model for us in that.
Tory Winn [00:13:20]:
And so we feel like we’re better together as teams and we’re better with those clients who like to work that way.
Katie Cash [00:13:28]:
Yeah, I would imagine so. Tory, I want to ask you a little bit about the intentionality behind your leadership style and kind of maintaining those core principles and those core beliefs within Gensler to maintain that culture. Because I have to imagine, you know, when you’re a single discipline working out of one office, that’s one thing, but once you’ve grown and you’ve got lots of different offices, you know, global perspective, lots of different things to consider. How do you make sure that you don’t lose sight of your culture and how are you leading it for Atlanta, you know, with intentionality?
Tory Winn [00:14:09]:
Yeah, well, I think it goes back to a lot of it has to do with the way that I came up in the firm. So I, as you mentioned, I was the first employee of the Atlanta office, but going back to the beginning of my career, Gensler was my first job right out of college. I’m from Atlanta. I’m a native Atlantan, but I moved to D.C., took a job in that office when that office had 25 people. It’s now 400 people in that office. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, it— being a part of a large firm that had a small firm perspective whose whose essence is really about entrepreneurship and growth from the perspective of, of not just growth for growth’s sake, but growth for opportunity for all of us, you know, and becoming larger and expanding and starting new offices gives more people a chance for their careers to evolve. There’s not just this top tier of senior people that everybody’s kind of waiting around to retire, you know.
Tory Winn [00:15:11]:
So I started right out of college and I was one of only two junior people in that office at the time. And I was given the unique opportunity to do all kinds of things and have that big network of Gensler behind me. I was treated with immense respect and value as a very junior person. I felt like I mattered. I really bought into the owner’s and founder’s mentality that it was my firm. Like, I felt that from a very young age. And so I carried that with me through my entire career. Gave me a lot of self-confidence in my 20s to know that senior leadership thought that, you know, I had something really great to offer.
Tory Winn [00:15:57]:
And so I moved to Atlanta to run the what is now Bank of America Plaza project at North Avenue and Peachtree Street. So that was Gensler’s first project in Atlanta, and I was the designer, and I traveled back and forth to DC and ended up starting a field office here. So what evolved, you know, there really was no official office, but that, that changed. Yeah. As we started, there was a small group of us who were out in the market trying to win work, and our Gensler came to town and we, we all kind of decided it was the moment to, to get an office started. And that’s really much, very much the model of the growth of Gensler. Like we’ve never grown through acquisition. We’ve grown because we’ve given people opportunities and we’ve followed our clients and we’ve moved into new offices and new spaces and new cities.
Tory Winn [00:16:52]:
And that’s a big part of keeping our culture intact is that we have— because we haven’t acquired other firms, those principles have stayed consistent. Yeah. So when I move, I brought those with me to Atlanta and Now that I, I actually left the firm for a good long while and had my own small firm, I returned 8 years ago to run the Atlanta office. And one of the most important things to me to be able to make the decision to come back was that the culture would still be recognizable all these years later. And it in fact was. And so, you know, that’s a real testament to the strength of our convictions in that, you know, 18 years can go by and I could step right back into a firm and feel completely comfortable and knowledgeable about best practices and behaviors and the way that we interact with our people and the way that we value them. So that’s really my gift now is to be able to give that to the young talent in our office, to give them what was given to me at a very critical point in my career.
Katie Cash [00:18:08]:
So, maybe let’s talk a little bit more about that. What are you doing to kind of bring up the next generation of leaders within Gensler’s organization, and kind of what lessons learned did you learn the hard way that you’re making sure that they learn from your experience?
Tory Winn [00:18:26]:
I think We all have a responsibility to bring each other along. That is fundamental to our firm. In order to be considered for leadership and in order to advance in the firm, you are required to bring people along with you. It’s not a nice to have. It’s a requirement. And so it inherently attracts people with a level of self-confidence and humility. Like, I think about those two things being, you know, two sides of the same coin where you have to have a level of self-confidence to not be threatened by someone else’s success.
Katie Cash [00:19:08]:
Right.
Tory Winn [00:19:08]:
And a level of humility to know that everything doesn’t hinge on you. Like there, there are people who do things better than you that are stronger than you in some areas, but that together we all can grow and advance and have individual success alongside each other’s success. And so putting together deep, involved, extensive learning programs for people in the trajectory of their careers. We have a program called the PDP, which is Professional Development Program, where everyone is assigned a coach who works with you throughout the year alongside a group of mentors that help you identify, you know, what your strengths are and opportunities for advancement within the firm and are really invested in your success. And so it’s, it’s a mutual commitment that we make to each other when someone comes here. But it’s not all us pouring into the employee or the individual. They’re bringing something. Each one of them is part of like a big— I think of it like a big bowl of gumbo.
Tory Winn [00:20:21]:
You know, we’re looking for people with different ingredients that they’re sprinkling in when they’re each making an impact. They’re not just here doing a job, heads down, getting things done. We’re really interested in what each person has to offer that elevates us. Like, is this person taking us somewhere? What’s their potential? And we encourage them to explore beyond the confines, if you want to call it that, of the Gensler network, which is expansive in and of itself. I mean, there a lot of things that people can get involved in and invested in just within Gensler to make an impact. But we also encourage people to go outside of the Gensler network and invest in organizations in the city and whatever is their area of interest to pursue it. And 9 times out of 10, we will say yes to most things that people want to invest in, invest their time and resources in. And we very much support that kind of individual growth because it enhances all of us, you know, it makes our work better.
Katie Cash [00:21:39]:
I want to talk a little bit, I think, about professional development growth in AEC. So last month, Smargies had our SMARTWIN conference and we had a handful of panels and really, really thoughtful discussions. But there were some, some pretty, I think, substantial takeaways and kind of directed towards those emerging leaders, those coming up that might be really, really great individual contributors and masters of their craft, whether it’s structural engineering, you know, pre-construction estimating, whatever it might be. But helping them, those individuals, realize that the path to leadership or the path to partnership or firm ownership in some cases requires different learning. And, you know, people don’t realize when you go to school for architecture or engineering or construction that part of the job is going to be learning how to do public presentations and speak publicly, you know, and get people to approve your plans, you know, get things through planning and zoning, get things past the community input. Some of the advice that came out of the panels were, you know, you need to learn how to read a P&L, you need to understand how to build a budget, you need to understand how to read the contract, you know, things like that. What has been your experience on helping to connect the dots of going from an individual contributor that’s really good at a craft to really growing into a leadership role where you’re responsible for a portion of the business or the organization, and now you have a little bit more pressure on your shoulders. How do you help someone up for that?
Tory Winn [00:23:10]:
We talk about this a lot internally, both within our leadership group, but also with our emerging talent group as well. So many of you may know that book, What Got You Here Won’t Get You There. And it’s like, with young professionals in architecture and design, we always talk about like, you need to really spend that first part of your career, like you said, building your craft, building a foundation of becoming a strong practitioner. But then at some point, other skills come into play that become even more important in many cases for some of us than the skills that got us to that place in the first place, right? So We are working right now. It’s interesting that you asked about this, but we are taking the entire office through a whole series of presentation skills training and geared at 3 different levels, senior and mid-career and junior career. And then not just in a more formal public speaking kind of setting, but also one-on-one, sitting around a conference table with your client, influencing, being persuasive, and also just building connection. And it’ll be interesting that I would be surprised if there are not a lot of other people on this call watching, observing this as well, who have this experience. But in all of our industries in the AEC community, I think it’s fair to say that a large percentage of people in— across those industries are introverts.
Tory Winn [00:24:59]:
And the way we approach that with people is helping them find a voice for each one of us that feels genuine, that we can get excited about and get behind. And that isn’t the same for everyone. So there, there are a handful of those people that can go to like a big event and walk around and meet strangers and, you know, those sorts of things. But a lot of people are very intimidated by the prospect of having to do that and having to win work in that old, like that traditional model. What I have always encouraged people in our firm is to think about the things that that make you light up, that you love talking about, and find an audience and find a way to talk about those things. I mean, introverts can talk all day about something that they care about and that they’re interested in. So you’ve gotta figure out what that is and then find the right space to do that and then get some reps and then develop some muscle memory there. And you’ll be shocked at how much easier it becomes and how much more natural it becomes.
Tory Winn [00:26:15]:
I mean, I know that for me personally, that was something that I had to develop over time. It was not a natural thing for me.
Katie Cash [00:26:23]:
And I think a lot of people just assume that people are naturally gifted and it’s, that’s not true. I really do think that it is a learned behavior that anyone, if they, you know, have strong conviction and want to do it, can do it. You know, I’m a, I’m a strong, I’m a hard introvert. Like on the scale, I’m a hard introvert. Being around a lot of people drains me. And I joke about going to conferences and events and it being too people-y. And people are always shocked. They’re like, Katie, but you can work a room.
Katie Cash [00:26:53]:
I’m like, yeah, because I was taught how to do it. And some of the first steps were, you know, hey, you’re going to go to this event, you’re going to represent the firm. I just want you to read up on who’s going to be speaking and who’s sponsoring and who’s attending. And I did all that passively behind a computer. There was no pressure on me to connect with anybody. Like, I didn’t have to bring home a lead. It was like, just be aware of who you’re in, who you’re going to be in the room with. And for me, just my personality type, that piece of knowledge gave me a great sense of comfort of, okay, there’s people my age, there’s people in my industry, there’s, oh my goodness, so-and-so and I, we went to school together.
Katie Cash [00:27:33]:
You know, finding little things made stepping into the room when I got there so much less intimidating. And then, the next piece of advice I got was just find one person to talk to. You don’t need a stack of business cards to bring back, just find one. You know, look for someone else that’s lonely, you know, standing in the back like you’re standing, and just, just go find one person. And then, as I started to mature in my comfort level, you know, my mentors at the time were like, okay, well, now you need to learn the art of getting out of a bad conversation. You know, you don’t wanna be stuck with someone that’s bending your ear and you really wanna meet someone else. So, let’s practice how to gracefully exit, and then that gave me a great sense of confidence. But it’s, it’s very much a learned behavior, and I applaud you and your team for helping your organization kind of sharpen up on some of those soft skills that everybody really needs and benefits from, but they’re not natural.
Katie Cash [00:28:26]:
And, you know, some people can really excel at it if you just give them a foundation to work from. Oh, for sure.
Tory Winn [00:28:32]:
You could have the best ideas and the best design concepts, but if you can’t convince your client or share them effectively with your client, then it’s heartbreaking to see that. I’ve observed it firsthand when somebody is really, I know because I’ve seen what they’ve put together and they just are, are having such a hard time communicating it that we’ve lost the audience. And it’s a, it’s a very important piece of it. It really is.
Katie Cash [00:29:00]:
Well, and I think that’s a really important takeaway just from today’s conversation is sometimes we, I think, put too much emphasis on presentation coaching, that’s the fancy, you know, dog and pony show to win work. But you’re going to be partnered with that client for what, 12, 18, 24, longer months. And every time you are face to face with them, you’re still selling. You’re selling your competency, you’re selling your solutions, you’re— and the ability to connect with the individual person to person where they have trust and, you know, they see you and know you as a person, um, is one thing. But being able to persuade them that your idea, your solution is the right thing for their project, for their business, for their budget, schedule, whatever that might be, is really a gift that everybody kind of needs to figure out how to, how to master. Because in every instance, you’re trying to sell something, right? Um, and trying to get someone to get on board with your idea.
Tory Winn [00:29:58]:
I don’t know how you feel about this, but I, I sometimes think we undervalue likability and enthusiasm. You know, those two things can play such an important part in someone’s desire to want to work with you for 24 months. Like, you can have all the subject matter expertise in the world, but if you’re not someone that that person could see themselves being excited to talk to every day for the next two years, then people don’t realize how critically important that is. And the level of enthusiasm that people bring can mask a lot of the sins, you know? I mean, it’s like, I would much rather work with someone who’s excited and sincere. Obviously, they have to have the skill, but all things being equal, you know, I would love— always love to work with someone who I feel really deeply cares about the work and cares about me and is excited for the partnership, like really wants to be a partner with me. That means a whole lot.
Katie Cash [00:31:02]:
I want to pivot just a little bit, Tory, and talk maybe a little bit about your view for the future. So, I think a lot of firms will look to Gensler and a handful of other firms in the AEC kind of as the bellwether for where the industry’s going. What types of change are you adopting that are going to become just standard table stakes for everyone else? What are some things that you might be pulling back on? So I want to talk a little bit about maybe one of your core pillars that you mentioned earlier, that of innovation, and how are you staying ahead when I feel like the robots and the AI and stuff is already two steps ahead of us, right? So how are you staying ahead of those things?
Tory Winn [00:31:48]:
What’s been interesting for me to see in our adoption of AI I, in particular, just to go straight to that, is how our teams are using it, how much enjoyment they’re bringing to this exercise in using it on projects. Instead of the— what I sort of expected was an overwhelming kind of resistance and fear and trepidation, everything kind of along that spectrum of like, oh, no. Oh, this is going to run me out of a job. And we can’t just jump straight to that. We need to go through all of these steps and build this thing first before we get to that stage. And I think we all sort of many months ago imagined it as being the tool that takes over the more mechanical parts of our projects, working on the construction documentation and that side of it, which which it probably will eventually if I’m being really honest. But the part that has been really interesting to see for us early on now is how we have used it to enhance our creativity. So it has not taken away from our creativity.
Tory Winn [00:33:10]:
It has created a new way of iterating more quickly and with more more versions of schemes and options for our client earlier on in the process. And, you know, we’ve always known this, but we sometimes still have to be reminded how many of our clients have trouble visualizing what we’re sharing with them until it gets so far down the process that then when they fi— we finally started showing them renderings and things like, they were Oh, this isn’t—
Katie Cash [00:33:47]:
that’s not what I meant to say.
Tory Winn [00:33:49]:
And meanwhile, we spent this extraordinary amount of time and fee and resources to get to that place. And now we’re able to quickly iterate, bring these visualizations to the fore much sooner, and vet things and get their feedback. And it plays well to our model, I’ll say that, of that that, you know, our best clients and our strongest relationships are those clients that like to co-create with us and who are, or really enjoy that, that sort of we each have a voice and we, they’re looking to us for, for a point of view and expertise and strength of leadership in our research, right? So when we have something to, that supports that visually, that actually becomes like a visual tool of as we’re speaking they’re seeing it play out real time, it’s extremely powerful. I can only— so I, I’m excited for where that is taking us and less concerned about what we’re losing or what we could lose and more excited for what we can gain. That’s pretty exciting.
Katie Cash [00:35:03]:
All right. I have one final question for you.
Tory Winn [00:35:05]:
Yeah.
Katie Cash [00:35:05]:
As a dubbed AEC changemaker, Ms. Torrey, I would love to know from your perspective, what is one thing that you feel like the industry is not talking enough about right now that should be top of mind for everybody?
Tory Winn [00:35:20]:
Oh yeah. I think it’s sort of the opposite of what I was just talking about, which is people’s fundamental need for connection and belonging. I think regardless of our, you know, which may be kind of an interesting thing to focus on in this forum, but I think it cuts across every project type that we do. It cuts across all of our industries. It cuts across our world right now in, in sense of place. We talk about this a lot, not in our industry, it’s in public forums a lot, but I don’t think we’re bringing this com— this focus enough to our own industries of what what that looks like and why it’s so important that we are seeing this kind of distressing lack of connection where people are kind of a little bit untethered and adrift. And I’m not sure, I mean, I could surmise that some of that is still sort of a hangover from COVID and post-COVID. And, but I think there’s also, you know, sociopolitical issues and all kinds of things that are happening in our world right now that are creating quite a bit of unease and uncertainty for people.
Tory Winn [00:36:41]:
There is a sense of kind of self— in those moments, people tend to retreat and become, you know, self-preservation and less able to take risk and less able to, to take chances on themselves and on others. And I think the more that we can be examples of bold motion and kind of stepping into those gaps and taking chances and pushing things forward and bringing— again, like I said this earlier— bringing people along with us in the journey, then we’ll all be a better, much better off, and our work will be better.
Katie Cash [00:37:21]:
Okay, listeners, that is your charge. Be bold, make those connections, Lean into, lean into those relationships. Tory, thank you so much for sharing your time, your perspective, certainly your experience. I know our listeners, especially those that are kind of navigating this leadership growth time in their experience, will take away a lot from this conversation. For our listeners, thank you for staying till the end. If this is your first time, we welcome you to the AEC Marketing for Principals. If you’ve been here a time or two, would love for you all to make sure you subscribe and follow the show, and would love for anybody to share this episode with someone that you think might find it of interest. Until next time, we will say goodbye.
Katie Cash [00:38:06]:
So thanks everyone.
Tory Winn [00:38:07]:
Thank you so much, Katie. All right, appreciate it.
Katie Cash [00:38:12]:
AEC Marketing for Principals is presented by Smartegies, the AEC growth consulting firm that has been developing smart business strategies for design and construction firms since 200 8. The show is hosted by me, Katie Cash, Senior VP at Smartagees. I would love to hear from you. If you have a question, a guest request, or a topic request for a future episode, send an email or a voice memo to [email protected]. And if you’re looking for past episodes, be sure to visit our podcast page at smartagees.com/podcast. We hope you’ll tell your friends and colleagues about our show, and be sure to subscribe so you don’t miss out on future episodes. Thanks for listening.