Katie [00:00:02]:
Welcome to the AEC Marketing for Principles Cash. This show is designed as a conversation between sales and marketing principles to address trends, challenges, and best practices that are driving growth for professional service firms. Through our collection of discussions with subject matter experts, industry legends, and leaders, we aim to share thoughts and practical tips with our listeners that you can use for growing your AEC brands. Hosted by me, Katie Cash, senior vice president at Smart Agencies, the AEC growth consulting firm that’s been developing smart business strategies for design and construction firms since 2008. Hi, everyone. Katie Cash here. Thanks for tuning in to AEC Marketing for Principles. So excited for today because today is the launch of season 6.
Katie [00:00:54]:
Oh my goodness. I can’t believe we are sitting here, 2024, launching season 6 of our podcast. We have come so far, Judy, from, I think, the very first time we decided, hey. Let’s share some of our insights with the masses, and let’s launch this show. So this is kind of it’s kind of fun looking back at how far we’ve come. For those of you that have been listening and following along with us season after season, year after year, you’ve probably picked up on a little trend where each summer, when we launch a new season, we like to have a theme that kinda provides framework for discussion and helps us cherry pick which guests are gonna be most appropriate for those conversations at that point in time. And so this season, we are theming the season under making an impact. And I’m really excited about the flexibility that this particular season brings us in this theme.
Katie [00:01:50]:
We’re gonna be able to talk to people who have already and who currently are making an impact on our AEC industry. I think you all might agree, we’re kind of living and working in an industry today that’s going through some unprecedented challenges and some some changes. And at Smartigies, you know, Judy and I, we’ve been able to have unprecedented privileges to work with some of the best and the brightest in the business. We’ve had a front row seat to some of these organizations experiencing these challenges and going through these changes and coming out on the other end bigger and better and smarter and wiser. And so I’m super excited about this theme. And, Judy, I know you are too, but maybe you might wanna add some colorful insight on why you feel like making an impact is is so timely.
Judy [00:02:41]:
First of all, I’m super excited for season 6. I do remember coming to you very early on and pitching this idea, you becoming a podcast star. And I won’t repeat what you initially said, but I think you would agree that the opportunity to be able to have these open conversations, quote, on the air, where we can share our experiences with our listener, it might be the most rewarding part of my day, I think. And in terms of why this is a timely theme, it’s kind of an interesting time in our industry with challenges we haven’t faced together before. There’s a lot of changes that are beyond our control. So lately, I’ve been speaking a lot about just the pure demographic shifts that are happening with our buying audiences. I have a 16 year old, as you know, and he is part of Gen z. And when I hear that Gen z and millennials comprise more than 50% of b to b buying audiences, that makes me a little bit afraid.
Judy [00:03:44]:
But it also makes me very aware that what it took to recruit me as a Gen Xer, when the baby boomers were recruiting fresh grads, you know, in circa 1995 when I came out of college, the stakes look different. I needed them more than they needed me. And these days, it is apparent that there’s this demographic shift where gen z and the younger millennials just have different buying preferences, different communication preferences. And, you know, it’s no secret that our industry, the AEC industry, has long been known as a lag industry. We are not early adopters of anything. So so to think about going to market differently to this audience, both from the fact that they’re have join your team, that’s a major shift because there’s a lot of differences today that didn’t exist when I went to college and came out of school. And, certainly, you know, when you went to college and came out of school even Yeah. There’s just been significant shifts.
Katie [00:05:00]:
I read an article this morning, particularly about these Gen Zs coming out and getting their first jobs because a lot of them did not you know, I grew up at a time I’m an older millennial, but I had a job in high school. You know, I worked all through college. So, I mean, my my big girl job was really when I first graduated and I got got the 401 k and all that extra stuff. But a lot of these kids have never had jobs before, so they’re learning to adult the first time. But this article I was reading was sharing that I think it was, like, 14 or 15% of this group are bringing their parents with them to the interviews, and their parents are negotiating on their behalf. And so it was from the perspective of the recruitment teams that, yes, their ideal candidate profile are these fresh graduates, but they really have to win over the parent. And so you’re truly trying to communicate to 2 different demographics in that scenario. And I just thought, oh my goodness.
Katie [00:05:56]:
I have not even thought about it from that standpoint.
Judy [00:05:59]:
Okay. First of all, my tongue is bleeding. I guess can I just say that on behalf of all Gen X in the world? My tongue is bleeding. And if you show up at the interview with your child, your child will not get hired at my firm. I just wanna go on record and say that, oh my you have to be kidding me. It’s not I mean, I know I know it’s happened to us once, but I didn’t think this was, like, a trend. I thought that was just one, you know
Katie [00:06:29]:
Yeah. The article was really painting the picture. I’ll find it so we can link to it in the show notes, but it was really painting the picture of this new wave of workers and just the differences. So it was kinda complaining about them, and I don’t wanna paint them in that picture. But it was talking about, you know, not being prepared for or respecting the process of an interview so they weren’t dressed appropriately. They didn’t use appropriate language. So, you know, there was some swearing and some cursing that happened, a little overshare of personal details, and then the parents coming along, parents negotiating on their behalf.
Judy [00:07:03]:
Wow. Well, you know, and on the flip side, I think your top performers again, I have a 16 year old and I’m, you know, very proud of him. He’s interning with us this summer, as you know, Katie. So that’s a real interesting experience when he comes to me and wants to ask me a question Cash his mom, and I’m sending him to his supervisor who is not his mom. But he has the rigorous task of cutting and pasting some old QuickBooks information into our Workamajig system. We’ve made a big migration of our accounting systems. Literally, we’ve asked him to cut and paste. It’s it’s a pretty easy job.
Judy [00:07:46]:
And I popped in on him this morning, and he said, hey, mom. I wanna talk to you about something. He says, I I’m just curious why we had a $300,000 net revenue loss in Q3 of 2021. He’s 16, Katie. So on the other side of it, we have kids who are still kids that are just so much further along than we were when we were kids. Just the technology they’ve grown up with. They’re fortunate enough to have a great education provided to them, which many of our listeners, their children do. And I don’t know that we’re prepared for that either.
Katie [00:08:25]:
Yeah. Well, this whole whole generation of fact checkers with Chat GT and all the world search engines at their fingertips. I know we talk a lot about demographics and the age differences and the the generational challenges, but I think it’s also gender diversity and ethnic diversity that we’re also kind of an infusion of in the design and construction space.
Judy [00:08:49]:
I know you’ve talked about
Katie [00:08:50]:
that plenty of times.
Judy [00:08:52]:
Yeah. I mean, one of my favorite statistics to quote, you know, when I’m speaking at different industry conferences is 17% or so of today’s registered architects are women, and I should say only 17%. And 50% of architectural students today are female. So, I mean, that’s just one profession within our industry where we’re going to see a big shift where you’re gonna see more women in leadership roles and in the industry that has predominantly been male, that will be a big shift as partnering with engineering firms and construction companies continue to be a really important factor in a successful project. I think that knowing how to work with each other is is just going to look different in the future. I had a client. She is this general counsel and COO of a a large African American owned general contracting firm, construction management, program management firm, and she recently attended an interview with a JV partner that was a larger majority owned firm and they were interviewing with a major utility. And the entire selection committee were comprised of technical professionals, engineers and architects, building construction professionals that were all women.
Judy [00:10:24]:
And one of the questions they asked in the interview was, how comfortable are you working with and taking direction from women? Like, that was a real question. I was really surprised to hear that. But if that question is being asked by a very sophisticated utility to a JV team that is comprised of really well known and well respected brands, it indicates to me that this change really is happening, and the struggle really is real.
Katie [00:10:55]:
I think you expect people to respond to that question, though. I mean Honestly. Right?
Judy [00:11:00]:
No. I’m not coming. Well, where can you look at the wind? No. But I think why else would they be asking the question if they had not experienced it Yeah. As being something they should be concerned about. And so I hear a lot of these types of stories more frequently these days. And I’d like to sit here and say, you know, there’s not a lot of difference between men and women, but then I think about my spouse. And that’s all it takes to convince me that there are huge differences between women and men.
Judy [00:11:34]:
And it’s not a negative thing. It’s just a reality. And I think that the more we learn how to work together in the workplace, communication styles and just understanding how to work with everyone, it’s just going to be more prevalent of a concern in workplace moving forward, I think, than it has been in the past.
Katie [00:11:55]:
So we’ve got lots of generations. We’ve got some changing gender and diversity coming in. It’s kinda shifting things. Let’s also talk about the robots taking over, Judy, because that’s another thing that I feel like is part of our everyday conversation is how do you optimize and streamline your processes and whatever you’re doing to incorporate some type of technology or software solution. And largely because there’s a shortage of people to do the job, we need to find ways to get it done. But I know that’s another big shift that we’re watching people adopt. And I think it was just a couple of years ago, we started having conversations about, are you managing your data lake? And are you doing this, that, and the other? And now seems to be what everybody’s talking about is making sure all their technology is working together and their robots understand what they should be doing when they’re sitting in meetings and taking notes.
Judy [00:12:50]:
Wow. That’s a big can of worms, Katie Cash. I think that AI the AI conversation was a bit overhyped in the beginning, if you want my opinion, in terms of, you know, human nature is to be afraid of everything. And our industry has a history of being Katie adopters. And so, of course, like, in the beginning, it was just all of the things that you had to be worried about. You know? So it is common to see lots of webinars and white papers on the risks of AI, and you saw events talking about how to use it, what were liabilities associated with using it. Cash forward to today, I don’t hear a lot of that conversation anymore. What I hear today is an understanding that there are real business productivity pros that come with embracing AI just like any other technology that has emerged over the last century.
Judy [00:13:50]:
I feel like the evolution of embracing AI is taking its natural course like every other new technology that’s come into our industry. So what I see today is, in terms of the marketing line, is firms understanding that with marketing still being considered very much an overhead cost, If AI can be used to reduce a lot of the manual administrative tasks associated with the marketing workflow, there’s a lot of advantages. One is marketing tends to be a high burnout profession in our industry, and I have CEOs asking about this all the time. And I’m kinda like, well, would you like to do manual tedious tasks over and over and over? And if you think about a lot of the things that AEC marketers are asked to do or are having to do, it’s things like those that really drain on a person’s desire to grow professionally and and do higher thinking things. And so if you can replace those activities that are, you know, they have to be done with tools like AI allowing your current staff to be able to grow and and experience higher value areas of contribution, I think that’s a really great use of AI. So I think that the conversation today is really about, alright, AI is not gonna take your job, and AI is not necessarily gonna get you sued. And the risks in both categories in the way that we’re suggesting to use AI are very, very low. But the marketer who knows how to use AI and the firms that allow AI to be used by their marketers so that they can have a better employee experience in that role by giving them the tools to do their job more effectively and efficiently and and make it more enjoyable.
Judy [00:15:45]:
I think that makes a lot of sense. So I don’t think that AI is gonna take the marketer’s job. I think the marketer who knows how to use AI will take the marketer’s job. Does that make sense?
Katie [00:15:56]:
I buy it. I buy it. You know, I mentioned it a little bit in the intro. You know, at the agency, we have the privilege of working with such a variety of firms across the industry, across the country, really across North America, and so many of these firms really do embrace who they are, and they live and breathe their culture, and they really live and breathe their practices. And I’m thinking about some of our firms that have always had sustainable design practices as part of their core business, but they really lean into that today. And firms that have always really embraced DEI and and how they’re really flourishing in today’s environments. And I think, as we look at this season, it’s gonna give us an opportunity to really shed some light on those organizations, have them come share their stories with the listeners and just how they’re making an impact on the business that they’re running, on our AEC industry, and how they’re bringing up the next generation of leaders and making opportunities for future generations to follow and and also making bigger impacts on the communities where we all live, work, and and where we do business. I think I’ve said AEC, what, like, 10 times, maybe 15 times already in this call.
Katie [00:17:07]:
We we love acronyms in design and construction. I think marketers might love them a little bit more because we’re always trying to shorten things up. You know, you guys give us page limits. We gotta find ways to get everything in there in those proposals. I wanna talk a little bit about this making an impact and who we’re gonna be featuring on this season. So you all know what to expect, and maybe you can think through who might be a great guest. Let’s use Impact as our acronym. Let’s talk about those individuals in those firms who we perceive to be innovative.
Katie [00:17:40]:
They could be innovative in terms of how they’re leading their business. They could be innovative in ways that they find efficiency. These are just guests that we feel like are implementing technologies and processes that are really setting themselves apart. So we’re gonna think about those folks that can come and talk about innovation that are making an impact.
Judy [00:17:59]:
You know, Katie, it’s not only just those technology investments, but a number of our clients are really just coming up with new ways to do old things, like new ways to solve problems and really branding themselves around these things. For example, one of our favorite clients, Walker Architects, a wonderful architectural and interior design firm out of Gainesville, Florida in Atlanta, Georgia, They have an innovative approach to design that separates them from other firms. And it’s not a marketing gimmick. It’s real and brings value to their clients, and it’s resonating with their buyer. So a lot of firms like to talk about project experience and talk about that building type. But I think that the way Walker positions their brand, it it’s really about how they design a building rather than what they’re designing. And what we’re finding is that the way that they are differentiating is how they provide their service, not necessarily their experience in a building type. So whether it’s for health care client or higher education client or for the Department of Education or whoever the client is, it’s really the way they approach design and the way they think about design that has set them apart, and that’s become a big part of their brand.
Judy [00:19:19]:
I feel like firms are innovative by simply saying, I reject this idea of being part of the sea of sameness. We’re all architects. We’re all engineers. We’re all contractors. At the end of the day, we all do the same thing. So what makes us truly different and unique? And taking that innovation to market is what’s setting them apart.
Katie [00:19:42]:
So excited to be talking about them. And for our listeners, if you haven’t already, check out Walker Architects Cash designed for an agile world. It is streaming now, and I think you will thoroughly enjoy Joe Walker and his lineup of guests that he’s interviewing on his ship. For m, we’re gonna talk about mentors. These are leaders in the industry that are actively engaged in the solution to mentor emerging leaders within their organizations. They’re truly creating a a culture of growth within their firm. We’ve seen kind of a big trend in our industry over the last few months or years, if you will, where there’s been a degree of transparency around, okay, this is where you’re gonna enter the workforce, and here’s how you progress from, say, a pipe fitter to being a supervisor for a fire protection company, or this is what it looks like to go from recently engineering grad to an EIT to a PE to a department head, you know, to a VP. We’re seeing a lot of transparency around that, and they can’t get there without that mentorship.
Katie [00:20:49]:
What we’re also seeing though, on the flip side of that, is we’re in a design and construction space where most everybody here has a technical degree. If you’re an architect, you spent countless hours in the design studio learning how to be an architect and probably didn’t take business classes, probably didn’t take marketing classes, and certainly didn’t realize that when you signed up to be a professional architect that the pathway to principal was being able to bring in work, meaning you gotta do some selling. So we’re seeing a number of these mentorships really taking the hands of these emerging leaders and walking them through the business of architecture, the business of engineering, you know, the business of construction. And it’s talking about how do you go about building those relationships, How do you handle sales? How do you prepare for an interview? And getting everybody ready to take that next leap in leadership and thinking through, you know, not just the technical aspects of it. So there’s a handful of clients, I think, in contact, Judy, that you and I have had the chance to work with that really wear that cape of a mentor proudly and have helped out so many young and budding professionals in our industry take shape.
Judy [00:22:02]:
Katie, it’s so important now that this is apparent and intentional within every firm because the talent war continues. Right? Even though I think we all agree that the talent won. But with recruiting being what it is in our industry, making sure that you let your employees know that they’re your most valuable asset, I think it’s the next level strategy that we haven’t seen in the past. I think that the firms that are doing it well are those firms that oftentimes we talk to our clients who are in the recruiting mode, and we might mention a a b c company, and they say, oh, you know, the Kool Aid over there is really strong. And the firms that are doing it well, it’s almost like their brand is known for being very difficult to recruit from. So what we see is a lot of firms deliberately targeting employees where it’s well known that the retention strategies within those firms are not strong.
Katie [00:23:02]:
Kinda goes with the next one, but it was a little bit different too. I think a mentor really focused internally than I think of those partners in the world of design and construction. Nobody can do a single project by themselves. It always takes a team. Next up is advocate. So we’re gonna be talking with guests that are true advocates for their cause. Advocates, when I think about this, are those firms that are front and center around sustainability, those that are really preaching corporate social responsibility, those that are really making sure that there’s a future generation that wants to be on the job side. And they’re working in lower schools, middle school, you know, certainly in the high school level to ensure that students understand that there is a full opportunity of design and construction careers out there.
Katie [00:23:52]:
So we’re really talking with those individuals who are driving business forward and advocating for our industry. And then we’re gonna be talking about content. This is what I’m super excited about. As a marketer, you know, everything that we’re doing is creating content. And everybody today, I feel like, is a content creator. We all have our phones. We’re snapping photos. We’re taking videos for reels.
Katie [00:24:14]:
We’re sharing everything. And I think the biggest shift that we’re observing is realizing that each brand out there, whether you’re an architect, an engineer, a contractor, a program manager, you know, a developer, your portfolio is one thing, but the content that you’re generating is really more created from a mindset of you’re becoming your own media company, and you’re creating content. You’re creating programming for an intended audience and really understanding who your ideal customer profiles are, understanding those buyer personas, what those pain points are, what some of the challenges that they’re facing in their everyday lives. And you’re creating content that helps them, that they can educate themselves around, that they can be more successful having read it than, say, in the past where everything was, look at me. We just did this. We’re at this event. Here’s my portfolio. Here’s my resume.
Katie [00:25:05]:
Here’s all the services that we offer. Me, me, me, me, me. Look at me. So I really do think that the new change and what’s really making an impact, and we’re seeing so many firms be successful with it, is a shift around how they’re thinking about content creation and content generation and really focusing on the audience. And what does that audience really need and what do they want to consume and where do they wanna consume it? Because it’s not a one size fits all copy and paste everywhere.
Judy [00:25:33]:
I think that my dream has always been to be a media company, and I think it’s really an exciting time for AEC marketers to start thinking about marketing in that sense. Is your own media matching up to your buying audiences, and are you scheduling that programming to support your sales enablement efforts? I think it’s a really interesting and cool time for us to start creating content in a way that allows firms to self publish. And I think firms that do it well, firms that really understand their audience and produce content that their audience wants to consume in the same way that we run to our Netflix to watch that next episode of whatever we’re binging these days. I think that, you know, obviously, things look different in business business marketing, but I think that the concept is the same. I mean, the goal is not for someone to see you once. The goal is for someone to see you and want to know you better and to keep coming back for more. The challenge looks different for marketers today than it used to. And I think as a marketer, I am up for the challenge and so excited about it.
Katie [00:26:53]:
And it’s exciting to kind of see the different angles people are taking with their content creation. The last one for our impact acronym, of course, is the t for transform. So we’re gonna be talking with individuals, you know, representing organizations and really representing about projects that are making positive transformations, those that are designing transformational projects that are changing communities, also people and organizations that are adopting new workflows. And, you know, it’s really transforming how they’re going about going to business and how they’re winning work and really transforming their companies to be more efficient, more effective, more productive, and certainly winning more.
Judy [00:27:41]:
Katie, I don’t know whoever said, you know, it’s not all about winning. But, you know, in our industry, if you don’t win, you you don’t really have a project to work on. So it kinda is. I mean, at the end of the day, we’re arc facing a project, and you either win or leave.
Katie [00:27:54]:
And everybody wants to work for the winning firm. So, yeah, you wanna win.
Judy [00:27:57]:
Exactly. You definitely want to win. And for us at Smart AGs, our roots are really in that art of the pitch and how to win win it in the interview. And so we’ve always been accustomed to being part of that. But lately, we’ve been part of some projects that are just really transformational for the communities that they’re going in. And that makes the job even more rewarding when your client wins. So just being part of the winning strategy for both the design firm Nelson and the contracting firm Balfour Beatty for the new Georgia legislative office building and state capitol. I mean, it’s a legacy project.
Judy [00:28:41]:
It invited national competition of just the very best in the industry. And so not only was it cool to see that strategy through and watch our clients win, just understanding that the project itself is such a transformational project that will outlive everybody who’s involved. That makes it really interesting. And lately, we’ve been involved in more and more of those types of impactful transformational projects. Our client at Asia Russell and Company winning the Los Angeles Area World Airports Program Management contract. You know, it’s a $15,000,000,000 program, and they’re the prime with an all minority contracting team that’s highly qualified. I think that that’s transformational on many levels. We get to be part of some big things, and that’s just why after 30 years of doing this, I just still love it.
Judy [00:29:39]:
No 2 days are the same. And at the end of the day, we’re helping companies grow their businesses. We’re helping companies recruit talent that’s aligned with their core values. It’s not just about hiring just anyone. It’s about hiring the right people for your organization. And then to be able to be sort of, like, at the ground level hearing about these new things that are happening in our industry that will transform the communities that these projects are in It just makes it a really cool profession. And I think that sometimes AEC marketing gets a bad rap, like, you don’t wanna come here if you’re a marketer, but I disagree. I think our future is very, very bright, and I think it’s our industry has the ability to attract some of the brightest minds in b to b marketing.
Katie [00:30:28]:
Judy, this has all been so exciting. This is, I think, why we’re so excited about this theme for season 6 of making an impact is because it gives us so much flexibility to have different conversations with interesting individuals from across the space to talk about HR and recruiting tactics that are making an impact on allowing people to recruit and retain talent, to talk to the rainmakers within firms on what they’re doing from a business development and strategy, to talk to head marketers about how they’re approaching content differently, and anything and everything in between. So if you’ve listened thus far and now you kinda understand the angle of this season, if you’ve got a suggestion for a guest, please let us know. We’d love to have any suggestions. Judy, thanks again for joining me for the season kickoff, and I look forward to everyone else we’re gonna be talking to this season.
Judy [00:31:20]:
Thanks, Katie.
Katie [00:31:20]:
Have a great day, everyone. AEC Marketing for Principles is presented by SmartEgies, the AEC growth consulting firm that has been developing smart business strategies for design and construction firms since 2008. The show is hosted by me, Katie Cash, senior VP at SmartEgies. I would love to hear from you. If you have a question, a guest request, or a topic request for a future episode, send an email or a voice memo to podcast at smartages.com. And if you’re looking for past episodes, be sure to visit our podcast page at smartergies.com/podcast. We hope you’ll tell your friends and colleagues about our show and be sure to subscribe so you don’t miss out on future episodes. Thanks for listening.