Katie [00:00:02]:
Welcome to the AEC Marketing for Principles podcast. This show is designed as a conversation between sales and marketing principles to address trends, challenges, and best practices that are driving growth for professional service firms. Through our collection of discussions with subject matter experts, industry legends, and leaders, we aim to share thoughts and practical tips with our listeners that you can use for growing your AEC brands. Hosted by me, Katie Cash, senior vice president at Smart Agencies, the AEC growth consulting firm that’s been developing smart business strategies for design and construction firms since 2008. Hi, everyone. Welcome to another episode of the AEC Marketing for Principles podcast. This is your host, Katie Cash. And today, I am super excited to be sitting with our guest, who is Bryce Batts.
Katie [00:00:56]:
And Bryce is very interesting. I think you are all going to enjoy today’s conversation because she’s gonna share with us her perspective on the competitive landscape as it relates to maintaining a competitive employer recruitment program specifically for AEC because Bryce is a career coach. She’s also the co owner of an AE specific staffing firm called the Career Collective. And over her 15 year career, she has worked with any and every type of design and construction firm out there, helping them find and recruit the best talent that’s gonna be right for their organization and helping them build programs to retain that talent so that everybody finds a place and can move forward with having the right staffing that they need to provide services to their clients. So, Bryce, I’m so excited to have you. Why don’t we go ahead and dive in and you tell us a little bit about how you first heard about the podcast and how you found yourself on this very interesting journey in the world of AEC recruiting and staffing.
Bryce [00:02:05]:
Well, thank you so much for having me, Katie. I’m honored to be here. And yes, that’s a loaded question. It’s been a wild ride. So I found myself in recruiting after I got my MBA. I met a girl in school who said, you should come do this and work for this company that I’m working for. My boyfriend at the time, now husband, because this was many years ago, we’ve been married 19 years. He’s also in the industry.
Bryce [00:02:31]:
She said, this is the industry your boyfriend’s in. That’s what we recruit for. You should try it. And I said, okay. I’ll try it. And so, honestly, no one just set sets out to be a recruiter, but I really loved it and still love it. I’ve turned over a lot of my clients now to our, staff here, our recruiting team, but I love building those relationships and working with them and helping to make the match. That’s what’s really fun for me.
Bryce [00:02:57]:
And working at the last firm I was with for many years, over 10 years, I worked alongside my now business partner. He and I were it was a competitive environment, so we were always vying for the number 1 or 2 spots at our last company. And after COVID, like many people, we kept asking what’s next and where are our careers going. And he was in Denver at the time. I’m in Raleigh, North Carolina. As I mentioned, I have a family. So he picked up and moved to Raleigh. And in 2022, we started Career Collective, and we continue to serve AEC clients nationwide.
Bryce [00:03:34]:
And, yes, I love your podcast. I was having lunch with a friend who’s also in AEC marketing. I saw her speak at an SMPS event, and then we had lunch together, and she had mentioned it to me. And then I had seen you guys were maybe gonna be at a PSMJ event, so that was exciting as well.
Katie [00:03:53]:
I always find it so interesting on how people find us. And because the AEC world is such a small world, everybody knows everybody. And so your network really is valuable today. And I know part of your podcast is really about building that network and finding ways to mentor and be part of the community. I should go ahead and plug your show, your wine after work, and encourage our listeners to tune in to that. But let’s talk a little bit more about your day job. Let’s talk about the career collective, because I do think it’s really hard. There’s not a client that I’m working with today that doesn’t tell me, Katie, we’ve got more work than I’ve got people.
Katie [00:04:33]:
And I find myself at our agency at Smartergies on the campaign front. We’re doing more and more recruitment campaigns more so than say traditional sales enablement campaigns. And a lot of our clients share these stories with us of trying to find the right talent, and they spend all this time and energy, and they finally get to the offer table, and it’s just not a good fit. And I love what you shared with me earlier when you and I were just chit chatting about you really aim to talent match. And you’re trying to find not just a person to fill a position, but really someone that’s gonna thrive within that particular opportunity within that organization. Can you maybe share a little bit about that? Because I may have shared this with you or not, but this season on our show, it’s all about making an impact. And I find that what you’re doing with your partners at Career Collective is truly making an impact on the design and construction space at helping them kinda plug that talent hole in finding the right people. And I think what you’re doing is pretty special and something that our listeners could probably appreciate.
Bryce [00:05:39]:
Well, thank you. Yeah. I think when it comes to working with a recruiter, and I hope they would choose us, but with any recruiting relationship, it’s really important for the account manager at the company to really understand the client and what their the ins and outs of them, what they’re hiring for, what their needs are. Because I feel like most of the time, clients will say, I want a 5 to 7 year PE. And of course, everyone wants a 5 to 7 year PE with one job. Oh. That’s like I always refer back to dating. It’s like dating.
Bryce [00:06:16]:
Of course, you want the guy with lots of money who’s handsome.
Katie [00:06:19]:
I want a guy in finance at 62 and blue eyed.
Bryce [00:06:24]:
Exactly. So but it helps if you really know the client, what their culture is, what the perks are, why they enjoy working there, your client contact, and why the employees enjoy working there. And then you can start to make that match. What types of projects do they do? What are their values? And you get that from the candidate too, and then you can start putting 22 together. Because, like he mentioned earlier, the worst part is interviewing all these people or spending so much time with a candidate, and then you get to offer stage just to find out they took a counter offer or to find out they’ve been collecting offers and they have 5 or 6 to choose from. And we do see that because it is such a tight market. And they’re like, well, if I’m looking, I’m gonna interview with multiple companies. I want multiple offers, but our job is to help them really understand what they’re looking for so they’re not just collecting offers and that they’re truly matched with the firm that they’re interested in, and they’re hoping to get an offer from that particular company.
Katie [00:07:24]:
I find that a lot of the talent that our clients are looking for, everybody’s looking for. It’s that 5 to 7 year experience PE. It’s something with very specialized hey. I need a seasoned superintendent that’s built data centers. Great. Okay. You think they’re not gainfully employed? So these are all, in the way that we describe them, are are passive candidates. They’re not out there on the job boards.
Katie [00:07:48]:
They’re busy with their day job. So what can organizations do when they’re reaching out to those candidates? We used to think call it poaching. We used to say we’re gonna poach someone. But I think everybody’s over that, and they realize, hey. It’s a competitive market. We need what we need. We’re gonna have a conversation if they’re willing to talk to us. It’s fair game.
Katie [00:08:09]:
But what could you say to maybe some of those principles that are trying to figure out, hey. Everybody that we need is already working somewhere. How do we make that first touch?
Bryce [00:08:19]:
Yeah. So I say whether you’re focused on working with a recruiter or agency like us or you have an internal recruiter, as you mentioned, most of those people are working. So once you’ve identified who your competitors are, and most principals know this off the top of their head, who does the same types of projects they do? Who’s going after the same work? Those are the companies that you’re gonna have to pull from. And I know because it is such a small industry, a lot of principals aren’t comfortable with just calling that company up and trying to pull their people, and that’s where we come in. If you give us a list of your competitors, we can go to those companies and start pulling people or messaging them on LinkedIn. And it’s true. Folks get bombarded with messages on LinkedIn, but that is where that partnership comes into play. How can you stand out? Unfortunately, recruiters don’t know a lot about their client unless the client has taken the time to share that with us.
Bryce [00:09:16]:
And so it helps to break through the noise if you know what the salary is, what the value proposition is, what they’re truly looking for, what the culture is. So you can start to describe some of those things in that first LinkedIn message. Because candidates get so many messages, they’re reading through them and they’re deciding who they wanna talk to and who is worth their time.
Katie [00:09:39]:
So as a marketer, I think it would be out of place if I didn’t ask this question. A lot of times we spend all this energy focused on building these brands. We don’t just want a logo. We want a brand that stands for something that embodies these core values, that stands for a level of customer service. But then we sometimes forget that the other side of that is the employer brand and the reputation of that organization as an employer and what a day in the life looks like and how the employees are empowered or managed or mentored or encouraged. Can you speak a little bit about, as a recruiter, the role that the brand plays and your ability to recruit or kinda craft that pitch to candidates?
Bryce [00:10:27]:
Yeah. I think it’s important to build brand awareness because it really showcases the company culture. It helps to engage and then retain employees. So whether you’re showing up in video campaigns or on social media, whatever information you’re sharing on LinkedIn, that’s typically us as a recruiter, what we’re seeing, and then at at events, what your employees are telling us. And I think that’s why it’s so important to have that through line so employees also know what’s important to the company, what are the values of the company. Because when they’re at different events, they’re talking about where they work and you wanna make sure that’s positive and you wanna make sure they know what message to send out into the world as well. So it’s just making sure that there’s that consistent branding so you can build the brand awareness. And, again, just letting us as recruiters know everything that’s important to you and your company and where you’re headed in the future, because that’s the other thing candidates really wanna know.
Bryce [00:11:25]:
How can they be promoted? How can they grow with the firm? And then what types of projects they’re working on? Candidates wanna see companies that are working on sustainable projects. They wanna make sure that their technology is up to date. I remember when companies were moving from AutoCAD to Revit years ago.
Katie [00:11:45]:
Yeah. Yep.
Bryce [00:11:46]:
A lot of small companies, really expensive, and so it was hard for them to move into Revit. And candidates, it was tougher to place those candidates with those companies who had not transitioned because they didn’t wanna go back and lose their Revit skills. So anytime you can embrace technology and be on that cutting edge, always helpful when recruiting those tech savvy folks or those younger generations.
Katie [00:12:10]:
I can imagine that in today’s competitive market, there’s a handful of other categories that would go along with that, like this idea of work life balance and maybe some flex work schedules.
Bryce [00:12:23]:
Yeah. We could do a deep dive on that.
Katie [00:12:25]:
Working remote. I do wanna go back to something you mentioned a little bit earlier that I think a lot of our listeners and certainly the Smarties clients have experienced is they’ve put in the time and the effort. They’ve advertised house recruiters.
Bryce [00:12:38]:
They’ve vetted
Katie [00:12:39]:
some candidates. They’re at the offer stage, and they’re in the bidding war. So they’ve made an offer. The person, their current employer has countered, and now they’re kinda going back and forth. What are some things that companies can do where they can remain competitive, but really without compromising their financial stability? Because we know everybody can’t just keep tacking on zeros. That’s just not sustainable. What can some firms do to maybe remain competitive in such a competitive market for lack of a better term?
Bryce [00:13:14]:
Yeah. And it’s really tough because I will say our bread and butter is small to midsize firms because they’re really huge firms like AECOM and Jacobs and some of those. They have an in house recruiting team, so they don’t need us as much as those midsize clients do. And it’s hard for them to compete with these giants who can offer fully remote opportunities and higher salaries. But I will say, and what I have seen in the past, is that those firms are first to lay off. Those remote workers are first to go. So those midsize firms, I think there’s more of a comfort level with candidates knowing that their job is more secure. But to be competitive, they need to offer competitive employee benefits and work perks that maybe they can’t offer the highest salary, but they can, for example, offer hybrid days or a flexible work schedule, whether it’s come in early, leave early, a generous PTO policy.
Bryce [00:14:11]:
A lot of firms are moving to unlimited PTO with managers’ discretion, and I’ve seen that work really well. And as we mentioned earlier, candidates want a really clear path for growth and promotion, especially gen z. They wanna know that they have a role that matters. So whether your company has volunteer days or team building days, they’re looking for a strong culture, but you hit the nail on the head. Everybody’s wanting greater career flexibility when it comes to either flex hours or remote hybrid work, and that’s gonna play a significant role. And, it does now, and it will continue to.
Katie [00:14:48]:
Is there anything that you’ve seen that you feel like is really creative in terms of some of those smaller to midsize firms that they offer as perks? I’ve heard of a lot of firms going to the unlimited PTO. I’ve also heard of some firms, I guess, buying back unused PTO so they could get the salary ranges up there a little bit more through that. That. I’ve also heard of firms requiring, I guess, sabbaticals every 3 to 5 years where they send the staff on a trip. Or some firms if you’re there so many years, you win a car and you win a car and all these other things. Is there anything that you’ve seen that’s been really creative just in terms of adding some perks?
Bryce [00:15:30]:
Well, you named some really great ones. I think unlimited TON. Just having flexible hours or hybrid work is the most important, but I have also seen firms offering wellness bonuses, and they’re saying that money can be used. We’ve seen the traditional gym membership, but they’re saying this money could be used to buy a surfboard or buy workout clothes. Anything that gets them outside, being active outside of the office, they can use that money towards, which I think is pretty cool, especially when we’re going for that work life balance we’re all talking about.
Katie [00:16:03]:
Yeah. I know some of our, I would say they’re probably our larger clients. They’ll have sponsored running clubs and cycling clubs where the team is kinda outfitted in the firm’s branded gear, and they kinda gets, I think, some wellness allowances towards that. It’s a competitive marketplace out there, so trying to find and I think part of that too goes with you wanna attract the right talent. And so for these smaller firms where every new hire makes a tangible impact on the organization. You wanna have people that enjoy doing the same things and that appreciate and have value some of the same things. Let’s maybe talk a little bit about the partnership that you and your team and your recruiters might have with your clients that you’re working with? And how can the marketing teams better collaborate with HR and with the recruitment teams so that there can be more collaboration and maybe more I’m I’m a marketer. I’m using all these buzzwords today.
Katie [00:17:04]:
More synergies and and impact could be had. Like, what are some things that we could do better as a team?
Bryce [00:17:11]:
Yeah. And I think it always starts with that true partnership between the recruiting company and the client and really being able to get on the phone and know what makes them tick. I have clients I worked with for 10 plus years. I know about their families and the ins and outs, and I think those are the relationships I really love. And I know, as a recruiter, I can really pitch that to the candidates because there’s that human aspect. But I think when HR and marketing work together, you can create a strong employer brand that helps attract new applicants and improve the current intercommunity or intercommunications. And that can start on job descriptions, social media, making sure again that there’s consistent branding. You would probably cringe at how many companies we work with who don’t have a job description put together.
Bryce [00:18:04]:
And they’re like, could you put this together? I’m like, well, yeah. I can definitely pull one from the web. I can pull them from another client and tweak it. But, again, if you can give me the bullet points or some sort of information, it’s gonna be a lot more true to who you are as a company. But I think those synergies are in the consistent messaging and the professional different networking events or corporate functions, and just making sure that the company culture and the values are highlighted as well.
Katie [00:18:38]:
I think that’s great advice, and it’s funny. I’ll share a story with you. We were working with a midsize engineering client, a multidiscipline in the Midwest, and they were coming to us more for a broader communications program. And they shared with us, hey. Part of this, we also wanna make sure that we’re presenting our firm and our brand for potential recruits. And I was like, oh, really? I didn’t realize you were hiring when I go to your website. Like, there’s no positions advertised, and I don’t see anything on social media. Like, how would anybody know that you’re hiring? And it didn’t even dawn on them that they should have a job description and that they should post positions that they were hiring for because they had always gone about it more like the word-of-mouth calling and recruiting that way.
Katie [00:19:22]:
They really have a public front about it. And so from that perspective, I was like, oh, well, from a communication standpoint, if I heard through the grapevine that you are hiring, the first thing I’m gonna do as a candidate is check you out. So if I go there and I don’t see anything, I’m immediately gonna think, oh, that position’s been filled because it’s not there. Are there any other kind of pitfalls to avoid that maybe some of our listeners should be aware of or things that you would recommend that they do?
Bryce [00:19:51]:
Yeah. It’s funny you mentioned that because it happens all the time. And as I mentioned, they won’t have a job description to give us because it’s not on the site. So then I’ll do a Google search. Is it maybe they’ve posted it on Indeed or LinkedIn, and I can’t even find a job description there. And you’re exactly right. That’s what candidates wanna know up front. Oh, well, do you have a job description? Do you have a salary a salary range I can look at? This is all stuff they wanna review.
Bryce [00:20:18]:
In tandem to that, I will say I had a client who I had worked with for years. They’re in the DC, Maryland area. Such a great company, but, again, a smaller firm. And I will say even 7 years ago, they didn’t have a website. They had a PDF that they would give me to share with candidates. I’m like, you gotta get a website. And now candidates, not only do they wanna see a website, they wanna watch videos. They wanna see if they were voted best place to work, any awards they’ve received or projects they’ve worked on.
Bryce [00:20:50]:
And they’re doing deep dives on LinkedIn. Who works there? What are they saying about the company? What are they posting? Which is why I think it’s so important to have that consistent messaging. And they’re looking on social media too. I know there are so many people on more of the design side architecture, landscape architecture who cringe when their company post things on the website because they’re like, oh, this is not design oriented. This is not the brand that we are. So I think it’s just making sure from the principal to the marketing to the designers themselves that the projects that are put out there, that they’re represented in a way that showcases the company and who they really are.
Katie [00:21:29]:
It’s so funny because you’re right. We are in this digital first age where everybody we’ve got a supercomputer in our pocket with our phones, and we can do some forensic analysis pretty quickly. And the website is huge. I think the social media pieces are huge. What, like, used to maybe a couple years ago, I felt like the Indeed and the Glassdoor and those types of sites were really impactful at helping employers talk about their culture and expectations, and there was some transparency around rating the leadership. How important are those platforms today, do you think? Are they still part of the ecosystem? Are they less important?
Bryce [00:22:12]:
I think they’re still part of it, but they do seem less important. I think LinkedIn is the hero of the story these days. Even as a recruiter, we used to use Indeed a lot. And then candidates would go to Glassdoor, and we would tell them, take it with a grain of salt. Just like most reviews, only angry people are writing them. It’s for employees who have left the company who weren’t happy. And, unfortunately, we have to share that with our clients too. That can be a really tough conversation.
Bryce [00:22:42]:
Like, hey. We like working with you. We wanna continue working with you, but we’re not getting candidates across the finish line because they’re going to Glassdoor and they’re reading these things and it is scaring them off. So that can be a tough conversation to have. But hiring, even for us at Career Collective, we try to put everything out on LinkedIn because we know that’s where our candidates are, clients and candidates. And I’ve had them say to me after hiring, when I looked at your pictures on LinkedIn and at events and and things that you do in the community, everyone was smiling and it it didn’t look forced. It looked real. So that’s funny, the things they’re looking at.
Katie [00:23:20]:
I find a lot of firms spend a ton of money on these professional all day video shoots, and they’re putting together this great content, and it’s beautiful. But do the candidates see that as scripted and forced, or do they really feel like it’s an authentic showpiece of what day in the life of those organizations would be? Is there a nice balance? Or if you’re gonna do video, what are some of the things that you wanna be thoughtful or mindful of when shooting that footage?
Bryce [00:23:49]:
Yeah. I mean, I’m speaking more from a recruiter because I’m not a marketing guru. But from what I hear from candidates is they want to see what’s real and especially on social media. So I do think there’s a time and a place for professional videos and a day in the life of the employee and following what’s happening at the firm. And that’s a great place or a great thing to live on your website to have there, have an evergreen. And, of course, you wanna make sure it’s professional, but for social media, I would say, and for other things, they wanna know the truth. If they’re looking on LinkedIn, handed photos are fine. If you’re at a race and say you guys are sponsoring it, someone can take those pictures with their iPhone and upload them.
Bryce [00:24:31]:
It doesn’t have to be difficult, and it doesn’t have to cost a lot of money. Because I know at small firms, they’re watching their bottom lines. Everyone is, but especially small to midsize firms. And they’re like, look. We can’t do all this, but you’ve got an iPhone. You can take pictures. You can post those on LinkedIn. It costs you nothing, and you can have an Instagram and a Facebook.
Bryce [00:24:52]:
You can start somewhere.
Katie [00:24:54]:
I’m gonna pivot real quick and ask you, I guess, a question about if you’ve got a client, like, we’ve got a client actively recruiting 50 plus positions. They’re they’re a larger organization, national organization. They’ve got very clear job descriptions on their careers page on their website. They’ve duplicated those opportunities on LinkedIn, Indeed, some more, like, industry specific job boards. And they’re getting a ton of candidates, Bryce, but they’re not getting the right kind of candidate. They have advertised the position is for a bus rapid transit specialist, and they’re getting people that have never worked in transportation. So what can firms do to ensure that all the efforts to get those very specialized expertise, the superintendent with data center experience, or a diversity coordinator that’s worked with Hispanic communities? Like, what can they do to make sure that they’re attracting the right candidates and they’re not spending time shuffling through applicants that are not qualified?
Bryce [00:26:03]:
This is what we call passive recruiting versus active recruiting.
Katie [00:26:07]:
Okay.
Bryce [00:26:08]:
And I think there’s a statistic. Hopefully, this is up to date. But for every 100 applicants, you will get one applicant that is qualified, which I know sounds terrible. And you’re like, why do I have to weed through all these resumes? But you’re just posting jobs, so anyone can apply. Yes. You can have them check off criteria, and sometimes they’ll do it, and it’s not true. To be able to just post positions and have people apply is pretty passive. To find those specific candidates that you want, that’s when you have got to either go to networking events or pinpoint these people on LinkedIn and message them.
Bryce [00:26:46]:
But you have to be really diligent about going out and making those connections. Starts with networking as well, having your people be at the events where this particular person may be So they can go ahead and make a face to face connection and start talking about the role that they have open. Because if someone’s working, unless they’re really unhappy and they’ve been thinking about making a change, typically, you’re playing the long game. But you’re playing the long game anyway when you post jobs because you’re just waiting for the right person to apply when you could go out there and find the right person.
Katie [00:27:21]:
So okay. I think that’s interesting. I think it’s nice to talk about passive recruiting versus active recruiting, and you probably need a little bit of both.
Bryce [00:27:30]:
I totally agree. It’s nice to have the jobs posted because the right person may be looking. And they may have wanted to work for your firm, but the opportunity hasn’t presented itself. And now they’re ready to make a move, and they may just apply.
Katie [00:27:44]:
You have been great at answering all of my questions. I would love for you maybe just to share a success story, Bryce, of maybe a firm you were working with that you put together your recruitment strategy or talent matching program. And it has just made a really big impact on how they’ve been able to attract and retain talent. Can you share maybe a success story with us today?
Bryce [00:28:08]:
Yeah. There’s so many great clients. I think I did mention the one who I’d worked with for a long time who had no website, and they would give me a PDF to share with candidates.
Katie [00:28:17]:
Do they now have a website?
Bryce [00:28:19]:
Yes. My contact was the treasurer. Now he’s the president. So it’s been really cool to see them grow and my contact move into the position that he has. But, of course, it’s easier to attract talent when you’ve got the website. You’ve got a social media presence. But another really sweet client I’ve worked with has been a smaller firm in Knoxville, Tennessee. You don’t think of Knoxville probably as the hub of engineering in this side, or maybe you do.
Bryce [00:28:47]:
But I think some of those smaller areas, it can be really hard to find folks. So, again, it’s that partnership with the recruiter who can go out and be looking for people who have ties to Knoxville or who wanna move back to the area. And so that’s been a really great relationship, and we’ve had some really key hires with them, which has been a lot of fun.
Katie [00:29:08]:
Any lasting advice that you wanna give our listeners to these AEC principles and leaders as they are looking at the second half of twenty twenty four, looking into their needs for 2025 as it relates to how they recruit talent and how they might approach their active and passive recruitment strategies?
Bryce [00:29:30]:
Yeah. I think it’s identifying with marketing and HR where the gaps are in their hiring and sitting down together and formulating a plan. And if you are a firm who doesn’t have marketing and HR, maybe it’s 2 principals on a couple of employees, then we would love to work with them and help them come up with a plan. Once they know what their values are, what their benefits are and the perks of working there, and why somebody would be interested in working for their firm, if they share that with us, we can sell the heck out of it. We just need to know why they should work there, and then we can go and find the people for them. Because it is a really tough market. There’s not enough people to go around, and so I think you have to be creative. Can you promote from within? Can you hire an EIT who’s maybe getting ready to sit for the PE? Yeah.
Bryce [00:30:22]:
Somebody who’s just passed the PE, who you think has a great attitude, who you can grow into the position that you wanna fill. Because, unfortunately, finding an electrical PE with 8 to 10 years of experience is a really tall order.
Katie [00:30:36]:
Yeah. And just be prepared to be in a bidding war with that candidate. Right?
Bryce [00:30:39]:
That’s right.
Katie [00:30:40]:
Brace yourself.
Bryce [00:30:42]:
And I think too that we didn’t touch on this, but 1 and done interviews are never a great idea, especially for people like that. You need to meet with them multiple times. So maybe it’s a phone interview, then a virtual interview, then an in person and a coffee or drinks after work or something so they can get to know who you are outside of the company as well. You always hear people don’t leave jobs. They leave bad managers. So they wanna know who their manager is. So having those multiple touch points for the candidate but also for the client. So, like you mentioned, they don’t start, and then they see all these red flags.
Bryce [00:31:18]:
Hopefully, you flushed out all those red flags before the candidate starts. Because on that second or third meeting, they were late or they had a crazy story or something came up, and you’re like, ding, ding, ding. This is not the right person. And now you’ve saved yourself a lot of time and money.
Katie [00:31:35]:
Is there any suggestions you have on who should participate in candidate interviews? I know some firms, it’s just the direct manager. Some firms, the first wave of interviews is done by HR. In some other cases, it’s a panel interview. Any best practice tips on what that should be?
Bryce [00:31:55]:
Yeah. I mean, I think best practice is having the multiple interviews. I’m not opposed to HR doing the first interview at all because they are the ones who typically can sell who the company is and what the benefits are. So I think that’s a first nice touch point, and then HR can decide, like, look. This person couldn’t answer one question I had. I’m not gonna move them along to meet with the principal because their time is so valuable. So I like that as a first touch point, and maybe it’s just a quick phone interview or maybe it’s a 15 minute virtual interview. And then from there, I do think it’s important to get all the stakeholders involved at some point because everybody’s gonna be working with this candidate.
Bryce [00:32:33]:
And if everyone has to buy in, then we want everybody in the interview that’s gonna be working with them day in and day out.
Katie [00:32:41]:
And talk to me a little bit about the timeline and the sense of urgency. You’re getting these applicants. You see someone that looks good on paper. Maybe it was someone within your organization met them at a industry event. They’re like, hey. We should really talk to Adam. He’s gonna be great for us. Is that you’d let 24 hours go when you reach out? Like, what should be the time frame between courtship, I guess, or nurturing these candidates?
Bryce [00:33:07]:
This is such a good question. Because as a recruiter, when we send a candidate over to a client to look at, we would let a response within 24 hours, and then let’s get them set up on an interview, at least a first step immediately. Because sometimes when they come to us, they may already be interviewing, or they may already have an offer, but they’ve decided, hey. I’m not a 100% thrilled with the offer that I have, So that’s why I’m gonna take a few more interviews. The timing is so crucial, and this is when it comes down to it’s like dating once again, because sometimes the timing’s not right. If they’ve got 2 offers and they have to make a decision by Friday, maybe they can get it extended to the following Monday or Tuesday, but they can’t start a new interview process unless you, as the client, are willing to say, we can move through this quickly. And if we like you, we can get you an offer to make a decision on. Because otherwise, you’re not even in the running because they’ve already got offers.
Bryce [00:34:06]:
So the sooner and the quicker, the better.
Katie [00:34:08]:
Well, and what if you are the employer extending the offer, how long should that offer be good for? Is it 24 hours? Is there a week time line? Do you put a time limit on it?
Bryce [00:34:21]:
Yeah. So this is a good thing to work with your recruiter on because if they have just started the process, I tell my clients I don’t want them to be first out of the gate with an offer because guess what? When they go on to these other interviews, companies are gonna ask, what’d your offer come in at? Tell us about the offer that you have in hand, and then they’re just gonna try to one up it. Maybe they try to match it. Maybe they try to beat it by a couple $1,000. So a lot of times, I will coach my clients to wait until they are done with the interview process and then let that candidate decide that they want to work for you and they wanna see an offer from you and then make your best offer. And don’t, I’ve seen this happen too where clients will say, well, he wanted 85 to 90. We’re gonna give him 85, and we’ll leave some wiggle room. Just put your best foot forward.
Bryce [00:35:12]:
If this is someone you want, it just looks better and it gets them to make that decision more quickly. And you don’t wanna lose someone over a couple $1,000.
Katie [00:35:21]:
I think a lot of people go into that mindset of, hey. We have a salary range of 85 to 95. We know they want 90. We’re gonna offer them 89 so that they can say they really want 90, and then we can give it to them the next round, and they can feel like they won. Is there some psychology behind that?
Bryce [00:35:38]:
I understand the psychology of it, but sometimes the timing doesn’t work out because then they get 90 from someone else and they decide, oh, well, they gave me 90. I’m just gonna take that. And it’s like, well, I told you to come back to us and tell us if you wanted to negotiate. Well, why would they if they got what they wanted or the high end of their range from someone else? We just went through this process with a client. He wanted to make an offer to 2 different candidates. So that already made it hairy because we’re trying to help him with 2 candidates. And one of them said he wanted 85 to 90. If he got 90, he would cancel the rest of his interviews and accept today, which, of course, we love.
Bryce [00:36:19]:
Give him 90. He’s off the market. Well, they didn’t. They gave him 85, so he continued to go on interviews. Then he got 90 from the next company. And they said, oh, we’ll give him 90 now. It’s too late. He decided to take that one at 90.
Bryce [00:36:34]:
And I say, well, you don’t want them to be purely motivated by money. It’s not. But if it’s a toss-up and there’s 2 companies and the salary is higher at 1, then you’ve lost them.
Katie [00:36:45]:
Yeah. And especially if you were holding out saying we’ll give them 90, but then then offer’s already at 90 here. Now you’ve gotta up it again, and it’s just sliding scale. So I think that’s really, really, really nice advice. Bryce, what is the best way for our listeners if they want to find out more about Career Collective and what you and your team do? What’s the best way for them to reach out to you or to connect with you?
Bryce [00:37:09]:
Yeah. So our website is my career collective.com, and we’ve got positions posted on there for our clients. You’ll see our fun photos from LinkedIn on there, but also LinkedIn. I mean, I have LinkedIn open every day. If you shoot me a message, I’m gonna respond pretty quickly, and I’m on LinkedIn as Bryce Batts.
Katie [00:37:29]:
I love that. And then also, tell us a little bit about your podcast.
Bryce [00:37:33]:
Oh, yes. Wine after work, and I find that careers are very rarely linear. So I love connecting with typically women. That’s the the bulk of my podcast. It’s women, entrepreneurs, career minded women, just sharing their stories and encouragement because I find we can all learn from each other. And a lot of times, maybe it’s uncharted territory for us, but someone else has walked through that, and they can give us great advice.
Katie [00:38:01]:
That is awesome. So, Bryce, thank you so much for sharing your insight and how recruiters can make an impact on the AEC world and on our industry. And thank you for all that you do. And for our listeners out there, make sure you are following these tips. Make sure you have a job description. It celebrates the essence of your organization. It’s true to you. Don’t just copy and paste it from the Internet or ask chat gpt to write it for you.
Katie [00:38:27]:
Make sure it’s authentic to you. Court those candidates with true passion. If you feel like there’s a match, don’t hold back your best cards. Go ahead and be true to them, and, hopefully, you’ll find the right match. And if you need help, Bryce and her team are here to help. So thanks, everyone, for listening, and we’ll see you next time.
Bryce [00:38:46]:
Thanks, Katie.
Katie [00:38:48]:
AEC Marketing for Principles is presented by SmartEgies, the AEC growth consulting firm that has been developing smart business strategies for design and construction firms since 2008. The show is hosted by me, Katie Cash, senior VP at SmartEgies. I would love to hear from you. If you have a question, a guest request, or a topic request for a future episode, send an email or a voice memo to podcast at smartages.com. And if you’re looking for past episodes, be sure to visit our podcast page at smartergies.com/podcast. We hope you’ll tell your friends and colleagues about our show and be sure to subscribe so you don’t miss out on future episodes. Thanks for listening.