Katie [00:00:02]:
Welcome to the AEC Marketing for Principles podcast. This show is designed as a conversation between sales and marketing principles to address trends, challenges, and best practices that are driving growth for professional service firms. Through our collection of discussions with subject matter experts, industry legends, and leaders, we aim to share thoughts and practical tips with our listeners that you can use for growing your AEC brands. Hosted by me, Katie Cash, senior vice president at SmartEgies, the AEC growth consulting firm that’s been developing smart business strategies for design and construction firms since 02/2008. Hi, everyone. We are back for another discussion of Impact here on the AEC Marketing for Principles podcast. And today, I get to welcome Mallory Atkinson, who’s the co founder and managing partner for Sheer Structural, to the show. It’s so great to have you, Mallory.
Katie [00:00:59]:
I’m having a little blast from the past because I first met you early, early, early in my career, possibly early in your career as well, in the early two thousands, and we were sitting across the table from each other at an S and P, I think, communications committee meeting.
Katie [00:01:14]:
Yeah. I think so.
Katie [00:01:16]:
Just trying to figure out, you know, this whole new AEC network and how to get connected and everything, and, wow, have times changed, and no grown up and official now. Right? Like Of course.
Mallory Atkinson [00:01:27]:
There are
Katie [00:01:28]:
founding firms and, you know, being a managing principal. So I really am inspired by your journey. I’m so excited to kinda dig into all the twists and turns that it’s taken today on the show. But maybe if we just start, how did you find yourself in this industry to start with? Because it’s quite niche, quite special. What first sparked your interest for AEC?
Mallory Atkinson [00:01:51]:
It is quite niche. And thank you so much for having me, Katie. It’s so nice to bring it back full circle. And, yes, I do remember meeting you all those many years ago, so things time really does fly. But what I think I love most about the AEC industry the importance like, and overlook the importance that architects and engineers and contractors, like, have on everything that we do every day or everyday experiences. You know, we drive on roads. We walk on sidewalks. We go to school.
Mallory Atkinson [00:02:30]:
We work in offices. We live in our homes. And it’s so amazing that our industry gets to have this, like, shape how people interact with these places, and they can feel very either connected or not connected to a place because of the decisions that we make. And so I personally am very passionate just, like, in general about how our industry gets to impact the built environment and shape the future of our communities in a positive way. So that’s very important to me. Like, how can our industry what can we do at Shear to kind of positively influence and shape the built environment for everyone?
Katie [00:03:10]:
I love that whole idea of the the broader impact that we have because, you know, as marketers, sometimes we might feel a little detached from the services that we’re providing, but very, very close to the projects. Right? And everybody gets so excited when we win a new contract, and then you’ve got those major project milestones when you’ve got the groundbreaking and the ribbon cutting, and, oh my gosh, it’s so exciting. And, you know, I’m married to an engineer, and for the love of him, we can’t go anywhere where he doesn’t point out, you know, something that he and his team did or, you know, that he was part of. He’s still so excited about projects, and they kind of build up your personal resume and get really excited about it. And now on the agency side, when we help clients position and, you know, prep for interviews for projects and they’re successful, I kinda feel like, yeah, I built that mixed use development, and I I know all about the right places to park at that hotel because we were part of it. So it’s it becomes really, really personable. And I don’t know any other industry that really impacts society as a whole as much as design, engineering, and construction. I know.
Katie [00:04:18]:
And, like, I feel like
Mallory Atkinson [00:04:18]:
we are stewards of the built environment. We have to really understand that stewardship, and, you know, it’s very important that we do that in the most positive way for everybody. And so, you know, I I I had a stint when I left the industry and went to go work in the technology startup world where we developed software. And there was, like, so much energy and excitement and passion around technology and just, like, you say the word startup. And I’m like, we were developing an app on a phone, and there was, like, all this excitement. And I’m like, but what about the excitement for, like, the new elementary school that’s being built down the street? You know? Like, this is just an app. Like, this is just the thing on a phone that doesn’t really mean anything to anybody. But, like, we should be super excited when they put in sidewalks in the street, that kind of stuff.
Mallory Atkinson [00:05:02]:
So I I kind of like, when I came back to the tech space, into the engineering space, into the AEC space, I was like, I wanna bring that energy. Like, I want people to be like, yeah. That’s really cool that we’re doing that. Like, it’s really cool that we’re impacting the community that way.
Katie [00:05:16]:
Right? Now I wanna fast forward a little bit to your current role at Shear, and I know you have some technical background. You know? I know you went to school for construction management. You’ve got your MBA. You know, you’re very well studied and super, super smart, but you’re a nontechnical partner for a fully, like, a full discipline in the engineering firm. So
Mallory Atkinson [00:05:38]:
Yes.
Katie [00:05:38]:
To me and to the listeners a little bit about what inspired you and Karen and and your partners really to start a woman owned engineering firm at the time that you did, and what was that vision, and how are y’all turning that into reality? Because, I mean, you’re kinda past that initial, are we gonna make or break it kinda hump, and y’all are doing awesome, awesome things. So I’d really love for you to share a little bit more about that.
Mallory Atkinson [00:06:03]:
Sure. So the vision of Shear Structural, it happened to be that the three of us were women. It happened to be that we were the first women owned structural engineering company in the state of Georgia. But the vision wasn’t really about that. It was more to create a firm that was a strong force in structural engineering that we could push forward the profession and really positively impact our communities and influence the built environment for the next generation. So we wanted to have a company that looked at more than just the project, that looked at more than just the project managers working on the project, and how do we influence our community and the profession. So that was how we got started. We felt that as women, we had a unique position to be able to do that.
Mallory Atkinson [00:06:49]:
And, really, we knew in order to create a company that could go beyond structural engineering and have an impact, we needed to focus on more than structural engineering. And so we had to have somebody that could focus on community impact and resiliency and operational excellence and workplace and culture. And to do that in a different approach, to have a partner that, for lack of a better word, would not be distracted by project work. Yeah. But that could keep the firm kind of focused and directionally on a place of sustainability and, like, firm sustainability and strategy and growth. Like, of course, it makes sense that that person’s a marketer. Like, it’s just like when you think about it, you’re like, of course, you know, that person is a marketer. That partner is a marketer who can kind of have that vision and keep everybody directionally at a higher level pointed towards that vision.
Mallory Atkinson [00:07:41]:
So like you mentioned, I have a technical degree from Georgia Tech, but it’s in construction management. I did work as a site superintendent and project manager for a couple of years, but the bulk of my professional career has been in strategic marketing and building relationships in the industry. And so to have somebody who could, again, kind of have that focus just as my engineering partners are focused on engineering excellence, to have someone focused on operational excellence kind of was a great recipe for success.
Katie [00:08:07]:
I think that’s awesome. And I think a lot of firms could really learn from that. You know, those that are starting to think about whether they’re starting their own firm and they’re kinda getting that entrepreneurial itch, or we’ve got some folks that are getting ready to retire and they’re looking at what the next wave of leadership might look like. You know, we’ve had a number of folks that have worn multiple hats in the past, but now it makes sense to separate things. And so your perspective of having some partners that are over engineering excellence, maybe some over other portions of the business can allow both of y’all to flourish in areas where you really have the experience and expertise, but all kind of still charting the same course for the organization is really nice. Exactly. You know, I think starting a company sounds great sometimes, but then scaling it and really thinking about how do you pivot. You know, when there’s a global pandemic, how do you pivot? We’ve got this AI technology coming on board.
Katie [00:08:58]:
What do you do about this, that, and the other? And you’ve been in the industry for a while. Right? We’ve seen a thing or two. We know a thing or two. We’ve been through it. And if you’re over kind of the strategic business development and marketing and those strategic relationships, what are you doing now at Shear to kind of drive that growth moving forward as you look at the next wave of growth for the firm?
Mallory Atkinson [00:09:24]:
As I mentioned previously, because I can stay focused. Right? Yeah. And we’ve things like marketing and business development into all aspects of our business, that does make us more profitable. And because we can be making sure we’re hitting profitability goals, it does allow us to invest in new things like people, services, software, technology so we can support the growth scale that we want to achieve. We are not looking to be this huge company, but what we wanna be is a resilient company. So that’s how I think about scaling and growing is, like, how can we support our clients? How can we support our team? Still have opportunities for growth, but at a very manageable pace. Fundamentally, marketing is promoting and selling your business, like, right in its basic form. And so having, like, that expertise at the top level of the company, like, I am able to help continue to communicate, like, our brand message to clients so effectively and quickly, and again, keep us all on the same messaging.
Mallory Atkinson [00:10:32]:
So, again, that just leads to profitability. Profitability means that we have the money to be able to make those investments to scale as we need to. So I do think that being able to leverage those two things at the top level of the firm is key.
Katie [00:10:46]:
I love that you are very forward and that you are a for profit business and that you are very strategic about leveraging said profits to, you know, kind of fortify the business and and bring it forward. But while you’re profitable, you’re also a very generous organization. A number of your teammates are actively involved in various industry groups. There’s a handful of causes that I think you yourself are very passionate about. Maybe talk a little bit about, you know, when you founded this firm, the drive to be part of the industry and part of the communities and kind of how you’re balancing that, you know, mission and margin together.
Mallory Atkinson [00:11:22]:
Yeah. And and like I mentioned, I mean, this part of our vision is to have a positive impact for the community. And so whether we do that with time as we did early on and and still do with our time or dollars, because we have the the dollars to be able to do so. To me, I just think what we give to the community, we get back tenfold. When we think about, does this make sense for us to to give to, it still has to fit in with our we were asked often obviously to give dollars or time, and we don’t say yes to everything. You know, we say things that we really like to stick to the impacts of, like, diversity engineering. So kids in STEM, bringing diverse voices, bringing young girls or people of color, bringing engineering to them, and being involved in things like, you know, career days and STEM days and introduce a girl to engineering. A lot of that stuff, I wouldn’t say is like a question of, like, does it fit in with our margin? It’s just more like, you know, does that fit in with our mission? And the margin stuff comes after that.
Mallory Atkinson [00:12:20]:
And we get great marketing return. I mean, if you wanna talk about, like, adding that stuff together, I mean, we get called out constantly for the work that we do there, and that’s free marketing. So, you know, that again gives us a little bit more of a platform to share about what we’re doing. And I do think, like, doing good does you good. So, you know, when you do good, people wanna work with people that do good. And I would like to work with people who support that kind of work. And we also have a goal at the company to do at least one pro bono project a year, at least one. So we we always support nonprofit clients at a discount, but then we aim to work on one project at least completely free, you know, a worthy cause.
Katie [00:12:59]:
I know you mentioned, you know, kind of leaning into these communities and supporting minorities or or women in STEM or girls in STEM. Let’s say you have a crystal ball and you’re looking out at the future generations in in the workspace. What changes are you hoping to see regarding that diversity?
Mallory Atkinson [00:13:17]:
Oh, man. I would love I’ve been saying, like, we’re the only first and only women owned all women owned structural engineering firm in the state of Georgia, in the state of Georgia. I would like to not be saying that after almost eight years. Part of the reason for me doing this was to be like, if I can do it, you can do it. You know, here’s a nontechnical engineering partner who’s, you know, responsible for this. So if I can do it, you can. But, really, in that crystal ball, I mean, it has to our firm leadership has to look different. It just does.
Mallory Atkinson [00:13:47]:
And that means all sorts of diverse voices. You know? If you look at our firm, our leadership has age diversity, and it has background diversity. One of my partners is a licensed architect as well. So I think, you know, companies really need to understand that diverse voices, perspectives, and backgrounds are so important because the built environment, which we work in every day and impact, is for people, a variety of backgrounds and voices and perspective. And, you know, I always am reminded of they were building a new neighborhood road in my sister’s neighborhood, and they didn’t have any sidewalks next to that road. And then, like, a neighborhood road, not like a you know, not a big road, no sidewalks. And I’m like, obviously, none of those engineers are parents. Like, not moms, not parents, because who wants to push a stroller on the side of a road to a grocery store down the street? You know? I’m like, so that kind of just thinking, it doesn’t it doesn’t mean that, like, you know, the necessary leadership has to all look different.
Mallory Atkinson [00:14:47]:
They just have to think differently. And when we get more people at the table who are considering who are, like, thinking about the design considerations of everybody, We just understand and design and build more inclusive communities. So, you know, I always think about that when I think about, like, the sidewalk. I’m like, nobody wants to push it over on the street.
Katie [00:15:08]:
I’ve done it. I don’t prefer it. Yes. We’re connected communities. It’s actually why my husband and I chose to live where we live now. It’s the connectivity and kind of the ease of that live, work, kinda, walk kind of scenario. I’m sitting here thinking about some recent stats that I read, kind of about the transitions that are happening in our industry, and there’s some really hard things that we’re we’re coming up to face. And, you know, I’m just starting with with different disciplines.
Katie [00:15:35]:
So we know that surveys, those that are licensed surveyors in our space, is it’s kind of an aging out profession. There’s not a lot of folks going into that profession, but it’s still desperately needed in our industry. So there’s kind of this huge infusion of trying to make sure younger kids know that it’s a career opportunity and making that interesting and making it accessible, and then you start thinking about students pursuing secondary degrees in engineering and architecture look a whole lot different. Right? They’re not all male and pale anymore. They’re quite both ethnically as well as gender, and I think that’s gonna really turn over the industry moving forward. I think the majority of students getting architecture degrees these days, a vast majority of them are female, and we’re going to bring a lot of new perspectives. And I think back to some of the early days and some of my early careers where the staff in the architecture department, in those studios, those interns coming in, man, they were working crazy hours. And you know, it was kind of like a badge of honor to be part of that sweatshop.
Katie [00:16:42]:
Well, there’s very few firms running those design groups that way anymore because
Mallory Atkinson [00:16:47]:
They can’t.
Katie [00:16:48]:
Yeah. They can’t. They keep working the staff, but I think a lot of it’s through, you know, changes in leadership, and there’s new perspectives there. And then we’ve also got, you know, this big wave of technology influence, these kids coming out of school that know how to use all the tools, but maybe not know how to handle soft skills and backing away from confrontation, and sometimes there’s challenges in design and construction, and you have to be able to have those hard conversations. And so the need for mentorship on those young professionals, and everybody’s too busy to really do that. So it just kinda continues to fester and grow. And so I’m just I’m excited and inspired for what we have in churn, but also hoping that everybody’s ready to dig in and do their part. And I know from just talking with you and kinda following you along your journey with Shearer, y’all are really out there kind of standing shoulder and shoulder with institutions of education at early schools.
Katie [00:17:46]:
I think it it would be a mistake by me if I don’t sit here and talk about, you also spend time teaching at Georgia Tech. And, you know, kind of talking about marketing and talking about business to those pursuing technical degrees so that their eyes are wide open around, hey. Yes. You might be getting a degree in x y z, but part of the path to partnership is you’re gonna have to learn how to sell and even have conversation. And even if you’re a crusty old superintendent, one day someone’s gonna ask you to be part of an interview team, so let’s go through that. And I know you you co taught this past semester with my boss, our founder, Judy Sparks. Would love to get your perspective on what higher education is doing differently these days to kinda to prepare the next wave of professionals. Because I have to say, Mallory, when I got to come guest lecture, you’ve got some really impressive students, but they are very, very different.
Katie [00:18:43]:
I had the opportunity to be in Greek life growing up in college and still advise every now and then, and I mean, these are young 20 year olds that have started their own firms taking them public, and they’re doing that downtime while going to school. And, you know, I was just trying to figure out what to wear to the bar on Thursday night. It could be a lot different. But we’d love your on with that.
Mallory Atkinson [00:19:03]:
Teaching was a really great experience, and I am the chair for the external board of advisors for the Georgia Tech School of Building Construction. So I have been involved in the school, and I guest lectured and stuff, but I hadn’t taught until last year. And I have to say I was actually quite surprised because these students started their college careers, like, basically in 2020, so in COVID. And I think that to me was the most interesting challenge that I ran into is the expectation of flexibility. Like, just a baseline expectation of, like, hey. I’m not feeling well today. Can you please record the lecture? And, like, you know, we weren’t set up for lecture recording. Part of your greatest attendance space.
Mallory Atkinson [00:19:47]:
And it’s, again, like, this sort of expectation that you’re kind of gonna just be as flexible as you possibly can be. And we’ve seen that, of course, as an employer. I’ve seen that, especially with most of my employees. I have two working parent households. So there’s already this expectation of, like, you’re gonna adapt to me. I’m not gonna adapt to you. And it was even more pronounced as a teacher. And so I do think that there’s gonna be an expectation of this next working generation to be extremely accommodating.
Mallory Atkinson [00:20:18]:
And, honestly, like, in our industry, we are needing so much talent. That good talent will be able to dictate a lot of those things, and so we will have to accommodate all of their needs. And it’s gonna be a challenge. It’s definitely a challenge for people who, like you said, had that kind of sweatshop mentality and working sixty hours a week with the badge of honor, and now that’s just not the case. We feel connected to work all the time. So whether or not we’re actually putting in sixty hours sometimes when we have our phones at home, you know, it still feels like we’re working a lot even if we’re not actually
Katie [00:20:50]:
Like,
Mallory Atkinson [00:20:50]:
officially
Katie [00:20:51]:
on the clock.
Mallory Atkinson [00:20:52]:
Officially, like, logging logging. So I think there’s just this, like, need, like, as we’re past work life balance and we’re just, like, how do we accommodate work into life, I guess, maybe is is a better way to think about it. But I definitely think the students are not gonna stand for it. They’re gonna very quickly leave our firms if they don’t get what they want.
Katie [00:21:14]:
We call them So
Mallory Atkinson [00:21:14]:
we call
Katie [00:21:15]:
it work life integration at Smart Adjust. And, you know, a couple years ago well, right after the pandemic, we decided to become a fully remote agency. So we got rid
Mallory Atkinson [00:21:24]:
of our
Katie [00:21:25]:
office suite in the high rise, and we’ve really enjoyed working remotely, and it’s allowed us to hire the best and brightest talent regardless of where they sit, so we’re not just limited to local talent pools. So that’s been great, and that’s also allowed us some diversity of perspective. I get to talk with folks that are out of Florida and out of the Midwest and out of the Northeast, and I’ve got some team members out on the West Coast, and it really does help add to that whole brain thinking. And you sit there and you might think, well, yeah, but we can’t do that as engineers or contractors, and I’ll tell you, yeah, you can. I mean, we’ve got clients who are 100% fully remote. Yeah, you have to be a little bit intentional with screening and finding the right folks, and professional development plans look a little bit different for some of those younger professionals to make sure that they can be motivated independently and they get the mentorship and stuff that they need. And in some cases, it’s not always great. I’m not sitting here telling every firm to go completely remote, but I think that where there’s a need, there’s a way, and we can find a way to move forward as a group and still make the impacts that we want on the communities and on the projects and do so with the talented teams that we have coming forward.
Katie [00:22:45]:
So I’m excited about that. Yeah. So tell us a little bit about Sheeran. What what are y’all working on now from a project standpoint, or what are you working on from a marketing perspective that kinda gets you excited and you’re like, yep. This is why I do what I do. This is why I get up every day. This is why I, you know, choose to be here when you could be anywhere else.
Mallory Atkinson [00:23:07]:
One project that really sticks out to me is actually one that we have recently finished, but it’s a community center at Promise Youth. And it’s adaptive reuse. My firm does a lot of adaptive reuse work. That’s one kind of way that as a from a marketing perspective that we can positively impact the community by focusing on sustainability and reusing existing building stock. Right? Like, not tearing down an existing community and reusing a space. You know, something that was a warehouse, can now be a coffee shop or, you know, something. So we took a 50 year old vacant structure that had a tree growing in the middle of it that was a, you know, blight on this community, an underserved community, and worked on it pro bono and turned it in from this eyesore to a community center that, serves the youth population and is a diversion program. So they go there after school.
Mallory Atkinson [00:24:00]:
They have mentors. They have tutors. They can play basketball. They can, you know, play games. They can just hang out there as a space until they go home. And it serves 2,000 kids. It now goes from this blight on the neighborhood to being a pillar of the neighborhood, And that kind of stuff, like, just touches my heart and soul when we’re able to to do that and and make that impact in our community. And so, you know, I get really jazzed about that kind of work.
Mallory Atkinson [00:24:27]:
And there’s actually a vacant building in my neighborhood that we’re currently looking at for a nonprofit to have, like, their headquarters. And so that’s really exciting, and it’s a difficult building. So I’m hoping we’re able to to get them to to make it not be so crazy expensive to stay in the building and also to move in there. But that kind of stuff is really fun.
Katie [00:24:48]:
Well, that’s exciting. This has been awesome. I could sit here and pick your brain all day long
Mallory Atkinson [00:24:54]:
Yeah.
Katie [00:24:54]:
Catching up. But I don’t think our listeners have that time. So before we go, I want you to maybe share one or two things that our listeners can maybe take back to their own practices, you know, things that they might be able to implement that would maybe better integrate marketing with leadership or kind of bridging those gaps for those firms. So any any advice you might have there?
Mallory Atkinson [00:25:17]:
Sure. I mean, I think the first thing that principals can do, which they’re they’re probably already doing some of now, is having, like, a listening session with their marketing staff. Maybe they’re having meetings with marketing staff, but it’s more dictatorial. It’s more like, I think we should be doing this. I think we should be doing that. I think we should, you know, this is how we should go after this pursuit and actually kind of turning the tables and having a listening session with the marketing staff. Some of the thing that things that I’ve kind of learned in my career, especially with talking to marketers, is often especially with small firms, it could be a one or two person team. And oftentimes, that person might be the only non engineer in the company or one of very few.
Mallory Atkinson [00:25:56]:
And, actually, that’s kind of a blessing because they can typically think a little bit differently about the company and the business and revenue making opportunities. And so just they can have really great ideas. Oftentimes, marketers are extremely creative. So having having that listening session with those marketers to be like, okay. Maybe you’re bringing a problem to them. Like, we’ve been wanting to pursue health care work. We’ve haven’t been successful in our proposal efforts. Let’s have a conversation.
Malory Atkinson [00:26:24]:
I would like your feedback on what you think we could be doing and how we could be pursuing this market sector or this client, you know, etcetera, etcetera. I think there’s often untapped potential in listening to those diverse voices or, you know, open that up to other people in your company as well. And, also, in terms of integrating marketing into leadership, I would also make sure your leadership team it might not be the ownership team, but the leadership team includes a variety of voices, of diverse voices, you know, gender, ethnicity, also background in education, age. Like, there’s lots of ways that we can pull diversity into leadership, and those people all have different perspectives. Because when you have a lot of people with the same backgrounds, they have similar ideas. And especially when you’re trying to solve crazy new challenges of this new world, like artificial intelligence, what are we gonna do about all that? You know, it’s like, maybe we should use some different brainpower to think about how we’re gonna handle those things. So I do think having those diverse voices on your leadership team can be very helpful.
Katie [00:27:29]:
Well, thank you so much for such sage wisdom and for sharing your journey. If any of our listeners wanna connect with you or learn more about your organization, where should we send them? What’s the best way
Mallory Atkinson [00:27:41]:
to learn more? Sure. We are very active on Instagram, LinkedIn, and Facebook at Shear Structural, s h e a r, Structural. We have a little bit of a subliminal shear, a she in there. Things were all it is. And, of course, our website, ShearStructural.com.
Katie [00:27:57]:
Well, thanks again, Mallory. I appreciate today’s conversation. And to all of our listeners out there, take some of these lessons learned, keep making an impact in your own way, and we will see you next time back here at AEC Marketing for Principles. AEC Marketing for Principles is presented by Smartergies, the AEC growth consulting firm that has been developing smart business strategies for design and construction firms since 02/2008. The show is hosted by me, Katie Cash, senior VP at SmartEgies. I would love to hear from you. If you have a question, a guest request, or a topic request for a future episode, send an email or a voice memo to [email protected]. And if you’re looking for past episodes, be sure to visit our podcast page at smartergies.com/podcast.
Katie [00:28:46]:
We hope you’ll tell your friends and colleagues about our show and be sure to subscribe so you don’t miss out on future episodes. Thanks for listening.