Audio:                    Welcome to AEC Marketing for Principals, brought to you by Smartegies, where we help design and construction firms navigate sales and leverage marketing to win more projects. Here are your hosts, Katie Cash and Judy Sparks.

Katie Cash:                    Hi everyone, Katie Cash here, and I am super excited to be sitting here with my fellow marketing professional, Ms. Whitney Thrower, who also happens to be an account manager here at Smartegies. So Whitney, thank you for taking time out of your busy day to share some of your insights and your experience with our listeners today.

Whitney Thrower:         Of course, happy to be here.

Katie Cash:                    And now, Whitney, you and I have both grown up in the design and construction industry, and you more so than I have, have had the opportunity to work for very large corporations, as well as some of the mid tier contracting entities, where you've both led a group and part of a group. You've had some experience in an in-house marketing agency that was both centralized and decentralized. You've kind of been all over the place, but maybe before we dive in to today's discussion, could you share a little bit more about, kind of, your journey and how you found yourself in the design and construction space, and kind of, what life looked like before you came to the agency at Smartegies?

Whitney Thrower:         Sure, I'd be happy to. So, I graduated from University of Georgia with a business degree and entered the workforce, honestly fell into the AEC industry. I'm not sure anyone graduates from college... Unless you're planning a career in architecture, construction, or engineering, most people don't realize AEC is a possibility. So, I graduated and kind of fell into AEC, in a marketing assistant role. I started my career in 2001 with a top 100 construction firm here in Atlanta. I spent the better part of my career there, where I rose through the ranks, again, starting as a marketing assistant, and then stayed there 12 plus years to become their director of marketing and corporate communications over the years.

Whitney Thrower:         And that's really where I learned to truly develop my passion along the way, from marketing and the role it plays in moving a business forward. And from there, went on to work for two other nationally recognized contractors, where I served in the marketing director role there, over the Southeast, most recently leading the initiatives in Atlanta, regionally in North Carolina, Florida, and beyond. So then, I kind of sat back and looked to broaden my skillset a little bit further and wanted to connect back to an industry that I love so much and I've built that passion for, over the years. So, I decided to leap into consulting, so that's what landed me here, ultimately, at Smartegies, and it's really, really been great. It's given me an opportunity to partner across the industry and remain in contact with that network. I didn't want to leave that network I'd spent so many years trying to build. So, it's been very rewarding.

Katie Cash:                    I love that. And I do think it's so funny, you go to all these business schools or, you know, myself went to... got a degree in marketing and you think you're going to come out and you automatically just go to the consumer brands, and you really don't understand that there is a career opportunity within design and construction for non-technically trained professionals in architecture, engineering, and construction. There's a whole wide business world communications marketing world out there, and like yourself, I kind of stumbled my way into it, loved it, caught the bug, and haven't looked back since. So, you and I share that, and I think it's a lot of fun whenever we get to share our stories with young, budding marketing professionals.

Katie Cash:                    Today, I really wanted to have a chance to speak with you a little bit more around the topic that you and I often get asked by our clients, those that are leading design and construction firms. And it's really around how to structure an internal marketing department. And so, I thought, maybe we could start baseline level. Let's shed some light around the typical roles that we see within an internal marketing department. And you kind of mentioned it, that first position you had, coming into the industry, that marketing assistant role, what does that look like? What are those responsibilities? And then, let's kind of go up the chain from there, if you don't mind. Let's just have a little discussion around that.

Whitney Thrower:         Sure. So, there's obvious variations, depending on the size of the firm, but there are a few roles that are really typical, as you know, in our industry. Where I started out, a marketing assistant role is typically the entry level role. Typical functions would include things like keeping the department organized, anything from gathering and inputting data into the systems, to organizing files structures, handling, maybe, electronic filing of documents, and really, the role typically serves just in support of the overall department, similar to an administrative function. And then from there, there's a marketing coordinator, senior marketing coordinator role. And that's really the key role in the department. Coordinator really says it all. To me, they're generalists, but their primary function is really to handle the output of [inaudible 00:05:14] presentations, any other related marketing collateral, really in the support of the sales cycle. It's very much a production oriented role with a high level of output. The senior marketing coordinator version of that role is a more seasoned professional that's similar in style. It's also a generalist with, maybe, three to five years of experience. In the senior marketing coordinator role, they typically handle the more complex deliverables for the department. But I really see that coordinator role... again, the word coordinator really says it all. It's just a generalist type function.

Katie Cash:                    Yeah, and I think another position that I often see, that kind of shares some similar responsibilities too, that kind of reactive nature, if you will, is the proposal manager, where they're often working with the sales team and the business unit leaders to prepare those proposals, like you mentioned. Whereas the coordinator, kind of, handles a little bit more outside of that proposal production. I often see firms, when they're building internal teams, just have people strictly focus on pure proposal production. Have you seen that as well, or is that just something that we're starting to see more, kind of, crop up on the job boards out there, on SNPS and whatnot?

Whitney Thrower:         Honestly, I feel like that's something that's become a more recent evolution of the department. The coordinator role was more the generalists, but now they're seeing this role for somebody that really specializes. I mean proposals, we all know. In the AEC field, that's just a very specialized skill. So, I think they're looking for people that are interested in and passionate about proposal production, and when they put it out there as a proposal coordinator or whatever they might name the role, I think they're looking for people that understand that that's the primary function of the role.

Katie Cash:                    And then, I didn't mean to interrupt you there, you were going to continue on. So, you've got your marketing assistant, you've got your marketing coordinator, senior coordinator, we just kind of talked through the proposal coordinator or proposal manager. What is next in the evolution of professionals within an internal marketing department?

Whitney Thrower:         Normally, you'll see a marketing manager. This is typically the marketing team leader, the person generally responsible for managing the day-to-day within the department. Normally, when they're named a manager, unless it's a very small firm, they'll have a few direct reports. Depending on the size of the firm, they might even have a little bit of a hand in strategy. So, their main role is really to ensure that deliverable goals for the department are met and the efficient deployment of the resources within the department. In some cases, I've seen them responsible for QC, some level of oversight. They might help with the implementation of any new initiatives. You know, again, just depending on the size of the firm, but really, it's to oversee the deployment of resources, day-to-day, within the department.

Katie Cash:                    And I do think that that is quite insightful. A lot of times, we see firms where it's... the marketing department is one person that has to fulfill the roles of a research assistant, proposal manager. They're also putting in for trade shows and conferences, and then they kind of get the title of a marketing manager because all of those functions do ladder back up to that one individual, even if they do not have direct reports for them because they're working for a smaller agency. Or, I keep saying agency, smaller organization, excuse me. Okay, so then, let's talk about, maybe, some of the more leadership positions within a marketing department for a design and construction firm. You, yourself, were able to achieve a director level status. What did that look, and kind of, what was underneath your responsibility when you achieved that level within the previous firms you served?

Whitney Thrower:         Right, so marketing director, I would see them typically responsible for strategic planning for the department. Many times, I'll have a seat at the leadership table, and they're working to develop marketing initiatives and goals that aligned with the business plan or the sales goals. You know, the marketing director is responsible for external communication, maybe how the overall brand translates to the marketplace. They typically have a handle on internal communications as well, and help drive employee engagement and recruiting, in tandem with the HR department. And they typically have a lot of level of oversight for day-to-day. Sometimes, they're doing QC of deliverables, but mostly their role is focused on strategy, benchmarking, what are others doing in the industry and how can we do that and translate that in a way that's best for our business? Establishment of policies and procedures is also another area that they're really responsible for, making for the department has the systems in place that they need, that they're moving forward, instituting initiatives that they can drive through the department to align, again, with the business plan. And working as efficiently and effectively as possible across the board.

Whitney Thrower:         And a lot of times, marketing director, the next iteration of that, more seasoned, would be a vice president of marketing. And their responsibilities are really similar to that of a director, but it really reflects, kind of, an associate level position. Somebody that's got, clearly, a seat at the leadership table. I think vice president indicates they are a leader within the company by title, and it's more visible, I would say, in the industry. Even at the director level, you're going to see a lot of marketing directors out in the industry, through various organizations, kind of being the face of the firm. But again, a lot of that is connected to benchmarking and understanding what's happening out in the industry, so that they can bring that back inside and help their marketing department learn and grow. But, I would say vice president, certainly responsible for that.

Katie Cash:                    And then finally, the pinnacle of marketing professionals within the design and construction space, is a title that's rarely used, we don't see it all that often in our space, is the title of chief marketing officer. That C-suite title, that C-suite responsibility, where they are at the table with the CEOs, the CFOs, the CEO's out there really talking about global business initiatives. And those individuals are typically empowered to develop the marketing and communication strategies, in which to help that particular company achieve those business strategies. In your experience, Whitney, what's, kind of, the tipping point for an organization to determine that they've gotten by, by having a director of marketing or a VP of marketing up until that point, and they really need to have a CMO at the table?

Whitney Thrower:         I mean, again, it's really not commonly found in our industry. Unless it's a global firm or just a large international or national firm, really reflects, I think, the importance of marketing. So, if you have a leadership team that really has understood the value of marketing, tied that to the business plan, they're seeing the results and they're understanding how that's really driving the business forward, I think that providing someone with a CMO title really reflects the level of authority marketing has within the firm, the importance of the role of marketing within the firm.

Katie Cash:                    Yeah.

Whitney Thrower:         Does that answer your question?

Katie Cash:                    I think a lot of it does have to do with corporate culture and, kind of, the value that they place on the sales and marketing initiatives and whether or not they're ready to, kind of, take that to the next level and think about it more proactively, certainly think about marketing outside of the proposal production feature. I think that's super helpful for our listeners, and for those that are out there, we will provide some helpful information, through the Smartegies blog, that you might be able to download, some suggested job descriptions, if you're out there looking for your next hire, we'll provide some of those standard marketing department job descriptions for you as you build your team. I think, outside of just trying to understand the functions of the individuals and their respective titles, the main thing that we are asked, whenever we're consulting with our clients, Whitney, is, should I have an internal marketing department that is centralized, or is it okay if they're decentralized?

Katie Cash:                    And there's lots of reasons that these owners and these executives are asking those questions. A lot of it has to do with the general marketplace and the availability of talent, and then also, the corporate culture and whether or not they can function as a de-centralized group and have people that are working remotely, independently, and a whole host of other things. But I thought, maybe, since you've lived in both of those scenarios and you've worked with firms, through your mentor-protege partnerships, kind of building those particular marketing plans and getting departments off the ground, maybe you could share a little bit behind each of those. Let's start with a centralized marketing team. That seems to be, kind of, the go-to that we see most often. What is a centralized internal marketing team, what does that look like? Why does that work really well for some firms? What are some of the challenges that face it? And then, we'll do the same thing on the flip side, for a decentralized team.

Whitney Thrower:         Sure, sure. Well, centralized is really, at the end of the day, centered around one department that rules all things marketing. They're all sitting together, working together, they control the marketing activities, develop new initiatives, manage the brand identity, and it just really ensures that consistency across the company. But the value in that, really the pros to centralize, most firms really look at that as being the most cost effective way in which to set up your marketing department. When you have all the resources under one roof, obviously, it's easier to control the budget, maximize efficiencies. You've got everybody working together, your people, your software, your vendors. It really unifies the brand, promotes a greater sense of accountability and ownership of the marketing initiative.

Whitney Thrower:         One of the biggest drawbacks to the centralized model is, really, the inability to customize for the local marketing needs. A lot of times, the business unit leaders or regional leaders I've found, at least, want marketing collateral or campaigns that speak more to their specific local market. A lot of times, that translation is really lost when you're working with a centralized model. And because they're so streamlined, I mean, they really don't have those resources, a lot of times, to meet the demand of the branch offices who are continually wanting to customize, they're forced to develop, kind of, template-based materials. There's a little bit of a disconnect, maybe, when it comes to the nuances of dealing with the local market. And if it's extremely centralized, then the regional leaders see that as a bottleneck. The business unit leaders, in my experience, start to view the centralized marketing department as a bottleneck. They're not as flexible, nimble, responsive. I mean, there's three lines to drive efficiency. So, by nature, by the way they're set up, they're in more control and there's a lot of less flexibility and customization.

Katie Cash:                    I think the two most common side effects of a centralized marketing team is one, sometimes you have added costs of travel if you are sending your staff, say, from your central headquarters to those branch offices, whether it's on a quarterly basis on an as-needed basis, if they're short-listed and need help preparing for a presentation or for an event, you've got to, of course, send your team there. So, there is the added expense of travel, versus just having someone, like you mentioned, kind of right down the hallway in those various branch offices. But again, we'll talk about de-centralized in a minute.

Katie Cash:                    The other challenge that I often see is sometimes, because of the perception, and sometimes the perception is a reality, too, about that centralized marketing department bottleneck that you just spoke to, you see some rogue agents out in those branch offices, kind of taking sales and marketing into their own hands and developing their own brochures. And sometimes, that causes a bigger problem for the brand, where there's miscommunication or there's lack of consistency in messaging, across different geographies or vertical markets, even, where the general consumer becomes a little bit confused as to the service offerings and the position and the value of whatever that company might be because they've tried to cater it to the various markets. And at that point, when you have these rogue agents, a lot of times, they are technical professions, they're architects, engineers, contractors with the best intentions, but not necessarily marketing and communications specialists. So, there's often a gap between their perception and what the marketplace is needing, that causes them some challenges within the marketing communications department. I know that I've seen that happen a whole host of times, with working with organizations that are trying to find a way to be complimentary to their centralized marketing department, but then also being responsive to the local market needs, in order of that speed of responsiveness and some level of looking like they are a local firm, versus a big global giant that has no face to it, you know?

Whitney Thrower:         Agreed. Totally agreed. And decentralized, you've got multiple departments, everybody separately responsible, really, for their own deliverables, their marketing activities, their initiatives. There's more of a general alignment with the overarching brand, but they're really marching to the beat their own drum. They're producing their materials the way they see fit for their region or their local market. There are some pros to that, when you think about that model, typically seen a little bit more in the larger national firms, where they have multiple service lines, multiple regions, it allows the marketing teams to really deploy the marketing tactics as they desire, without that corporate policing, so to speak. There are no approvals or strict oversights in place. I mean, it's just a very customized and focused brand. But, there's quick response times. I mean, things are happening fast, there's a better connection with the audience. But again, to your point earlier, I'd say be a little careful here because de-centralizing really... it just tampers with the brand integrity. If everyone's left it do their own thing with no guidance or anything like that, you can imagine what comes of that. And that's what you were saying before, the logos, the billboards, the new tagline might show up. I mean, you just don't really know what that translation is going to look like.

Katie Cash:                    Yeah, you definitely need a check and balances system in place. And even when I've worked with very sophisticated firms that have executed a de-centralized marketing department very effectively, they all have their team's kind of laddering back up to one another, where they understand their overarching positioning of the firm. They kind of understand how far they can go, in terms of being flexible and nimble and creative on how they're going to address their different office needs or their department needs. But they all, kind of, salute the overarching corporate flag. And I think that a thing that a lot of brands do, that do often have a de-centralized team is, they still get those de-centralized teams together on an annual basis, just to ensure that people are in alignment with the overall business goals. so that if you have one particular individual that might be in a branch office, that might be the lone marketing coordinator out there, that they don't feel alone, they feel part of the team, they can have greater buy in as a group. And so, I do see firms that have found a way to bring those de-centralized groups together, even if it's just once a year. And that's been highly, highly successful and very appreciative, I think, of the teams that's been part of that experience.

Whitney Thrower:         Right, and I guess, in my mind, I kind of call that the hybrid model, you know? I think it's where you've got, kind of, the combination of the centralized ideas and the people setting the course for marketing, spearheading initiatives, developing templates, collecting assets, that the local marketing teams really deploy. Corporate still maintains, to your point, that control of the brand. They're developing the templates, but they've got... the local teams understand the parameters that they have to stay within, to deploy the brand locally.

Katie Cash:                    Yes, absolutely. So, as we're sitting here having this discussion, the one thing that's dawning on me is, a lot of listeners and a lot of clients that we've worked with are actually smaller boutique firms that don't have a marketing department, or are trying to decide whether or not they should. And in these scenarios, I find that it's the technical staff themselves, the contractor, the architect, the engineer, who is selling the work, going out, making the relationships, putting together the proposals and the presentations, going to the trade shows, and then actually doing the work themselves. And there becomes a tipping point, in those businesses, where it makes sense to offset, kind of put all of the sales and marketing initiatives off of your technical team, your billable team, if you will, and put it on a marketing professional, whether that's in-house or going through an outsourced provider.

Katie Cash:                    And I know, Whitney, you have spent a lot of time working with smaller firms and growing firms, through your mentor-protege partnership programs, where you are kind of helping them work through that. Maybe you could talk a little bit, to our listeners, about understanding when your organization has reached the point where it really does warrant taking those sales and marketing activities off of your technical staff, bringing them up to do the actual billable work, and empowering professionals in the communications and marketing realm, to take over those initiatives, and maybe what that might look like.

Whitney Thrower:         Yeah, I think, really, when you're... You should consider formalizing your marketing department when your business needs outweigh that skillset of your team, or when you're looking to grow. I recommend making sure your resources match your desired level of sophistication of the firm and your future growth plan. I mean, for instance, if you're okay maintaining your current pace or not looking to grow, the production model might work for you. However, if you're in the need for... It's kind of almost intuition, right? I think a lot of AEC firm principals, business owners, they kind of feel when they're ready for that next level of support, or they realize that they've kind of plateaued, so to speak. They need marketing strategy, they're looking to grow into new markets or generate revenue, grow revenue, maybe taking your business to the next level, I mean, it's time to make that leap. It's time to invest and formalize your marketing department.

Katie Cash:                    Yeah, I think the primary initiatives where we're engaged, those principals have reached the point where they simply just don't have time, and they have so much work that actually needs to be done, that they really don't have time to focus on sales and marketing, but they know if they let their foot off the gas, that they're not going to have any backlog that's going to keep them open and in business, once they finish project one, two, or three right now. And then, the other common point, too, that you just mentioned, is really understanding the skillset. They've been working in this particular geography, they've been doing this building tight, and they're ready to do the next great thing. And they're not really sure how they can take their portfolio to that next level, and they're looking for enhanced business strategy.

Whitney Thrower:         Honestly. Where they realize they've got a marketing department in place that can support the production, but they're just reacting, and they realize that they're not able to, kind of, move their business to that next level because they don't have the in-house strategic thinkers, from a marketing perspective. So, marketing is an investment. I think that's important for businesses to understand. You're investing in people, you're investing in the infrastructure, you're investing in that. But, when it aligns, when you have strategic marketing thinkers within your firm, or you've consulted with an agency that had that mindset, and they're really aligning your plan with your business goals, there's a big ROI to that investment. And it really... You can look at some of these B2B firms that have really taken the time to invest in marketing in a strategic manner and align those plans with the business goals. And again, you're going to get a great level of return when you take the time to make that leap, you know, and align your marketing plan, your sales plan, with your business goals.

Katie Cash:                    I think that is so true. Well, Whitney, I think this has been super helpful. I hope that our listeners have found some value in today's discussion. As we sit here, moving into fall of 2019, I know a lot of our clients and a lot of firms across the design and construction industry are putting together their 2020 plans, and hopefully today's discussion will help them think through their marketing structure, both internally, whether or not they're at that point in their business strategy and their business growth trajectory, and whether or not they need to add additional resources or they might need some additional expertise. Before we wrap up today's show, is there anything else you might want to share with our listeners, since you are on today's episode, Whitney?

Whitney Thrower:         No, I don't think so. I mean, really, over the years, I've really seen, again, just how aligning your marketing plan with your sales plan, and attaching that to your overarching business plan, it works in support of the business plan, how much of a difference that can really make. And the centralized model, again, drives efficiency. It is more controlled, but the de-centralized model, it can be very expensive. You've got a lot going on with systems and people and lack of a little bit of alignment, so somewhere, finding that balance is really the most important element, is striking that balance in a way that really meets the needs of your firm, specifically.

Katie Cash:                    Well, everybody out there, I hope you have enjoyed today's episode. Again, if you are looking for some resources, in terms of job descriptions and roles and responsibilities for building a marketing department in-house, be sure to check out the Smartegies blog. We will have some resources up there for you to download. Have a great week.

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